(no subject)

[realplayer.livejournal.com]

англичанин спросил, как работают эти два варианта и в чём разница, а я не смогла ответить. Помогите, пожалуйста, я не понимаю.

там никто не был
там никого не было

до меня там никто не был
до меня там никого не было

я там не была
меня там не было

после шести там никто не бывает
после шести там никого не бывает

он не был в школе
его не было в школе

Comments

[legr.livejournal.com]

В комнате никого не было (комната была пуста. Свойство комнаты)

Никто не был на Солнце.(Ни один человек не сумел этого еще сделать -
более субъектная, антропоцентрированная синтаксическая конструкция).

[oryx_and_crake]

Thank you for your useful answer but I have to remind you that this is a community for people studying Russian, and its working language is English (please see the rules.) Many people here will not be able to understand your comment, no matter how useful it might be. I will be very much obliged if you provide an English translation.

[insaint.livejournal.com]

Первый вариант - активный, второй - пассивный. Так англичанину и объясни. The former is in active voice, the latter is in passive voice.

[insaint.livejournal.com]

Err... I thought I did? Admittedly, I could've added more detail in the English part of my comment, but...

[insaint.livejournal.com]

No problem. I'll put more effort into my translations in the future.

[asmodeus-dhoine.livejournal.com]

а по-моему, не так. точнее, тут в оттенке смысл.
то есть:

там никто не был - там НИКТО НИКОГДА раньше не был.
там никого не было - я зашел, а там никого нет. пусто.

до меня там никто не был - я туда пришел первый. первооткрыватель!
до меня там никого не было - я пришел первый, а потом пришли остальные. на собрание, например.

я там не была - я никогда не была в Гондурасе. Вообще никогда.
меня там не было - именно ТАМ меня не было в то время. я была в другом месте.

после шести там никто не бывает - не заходят, не приходят.
после шести там никого не бывает - все уходят после шести.
//вообще, практически одинаковые предложения//

он не был в школе - он был где-то в другом месте, сволочь!
его не было в школе - нет, в школе его не было, а мы искали, блин.

По-моему, так :)

[fyo.livejournal.com]

очень точно!

[oryx_and_crake]

Thank you for your useful answer but I have to remind you that this is a community for people studying Russian, and its working language is English (please see the rules.) Many people here will not be able to understand your comment, no matter how useful it might be. I will be very much obliged if you provide an English translation.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_virusman_/]

По-моему, предложения одинаковы по смыслу. Во всяком случае, не стоит по этому поводу иностранцам лишний раз грузиться.

[oryx_and_crake]

Thank you for your useful comment but I have to remind you that this is a community for people studying Russian, and its working language is English (please see the rules.) Many people here will not be able to understand your comment, no matter how useful it might be. I will be very much obliged if you provide an English translation.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_virusman_/]

IMHO, these sentencies have the same meaning. Anyway, foreigners shouldn't stuff their heads with it since even native speakers can't explain the difference.

[oryx_and_crake]

Well, as it happens, at least SOME of the native speakers can understand and explain the difference. If you don't, then maybe it would be better to abstain from commenting altogether. People came here to learn, and your comment sounds very discouraging and rude.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_virusman_/]

I just thought that there were more important things to learn, because native speakers' opinions varied. No offence or rudeness was meant by this comment. It was an advice to the author of the topic.
But, anyway, as you wish. I'll stop commenting in this community from now on.

[poluzhivago.livejournal.com]

По-русски это называется действительный залог и страдательный залог. В английском этот термин называется active voice и passive voice. Есть еще middle voice.

[lex3.livejournal.com]

а что такое middle voice. В англ есть три залога active, passive and neuter-reflexive (это и есть middle)

[poluzhivago.livejournal.com]

Middle voice - это когда непереходной глагол является синтаксически активным, но семантически пассивен. Пример: The stew cooked in the oven, в отличие от this stew is cooked in the oven (хм-хм, надеюсь пример удачный).

Вообще, это довольно тонкий момент, интересный лишь лингвистам.

[lex3.livejournal.com]

Ups, тогда получается в англ 4 залога (?).
Middle voice это наверно не отдельная категория, а частный случай пассивного залога.
По крайней мере у Каушанской я Middle voice не обнаружил.

[poluzhivago.livejournal.com]

Угу, частный случай страдательного залога.

[oryx_and_crake]

Thank you for your useful answer but I have to remind you that this is a community for people studying Russian, and its working language is English (please see the rules.) Many people here will not be able to understand your comment, no matter how useful it might be. I will be very much obliged if you provide an English translation.

[oryx_and_crake]

Thank you for your useful answer but I have to remind you that this is a community for people studying Russian, and its working language is English (please see the rules.) Many people here will not be able to understand your comment, no matter how useful it might be. I will be very much obliged if you provide an English translation.

[dzhozef-derfler.livejournal.com]

Umm...Could someone translate this journal into English? I have a feeling that I'm missing out on rather important information, seeing as how I'm not fluent in Russian yet. Sorry if my request is an inconvenience to anyone; I just have no clue as to what in the Hell is going on...

[oryx_and_crake]

You are absolutely right to ask. I have already asked everybody to provide an English translation.

Since nobody care to translate, I'll do

[russian-bob.livejournal.com]

The original question was:
An Englishman asked me how the following pairs work, and what is the difference, I could not answer. I don’t get it, please help.

In replies, it was mentionned that grammatically first line is in действительный залог - active voice and the second line is in страдательный залог - passive voice.
I'll try to translate it as close to it's Russian meaning as possible:

там никто не был – nobody have been there
там никого не было – there was nobody there

до меня там никто не был - nobody have been there before me
до меня там никого не было - there was nobody there before me

я там не была – I have not been there
меня там не было – I was not there

после шести там никто не бывает – nobody is there after six
после шести там никого не бывает – there is nobody [present] there after six
//practically these two sentences are the same //

он не был в школе – he was not in school
его не было в школе – he was absent from school

Re: Since nobody care to translate, I'll do

[battersby.livejournal.com]

thank you for translating that! It seems as though you are the only one who took oryx_and_crake's comments seriously

Re: Since nobody care to translate, I'll do

[dzhozef-derfler.livejournal.com]

Yes, thank you!

[oryx_and_crake]

Thank you for your interesting question but please keep in mind that this is a community for people studying Russian, and its working language is English. Many people here will not be able to understand your question, however interesting it might be. I will be very much obliged if you provide an English translation.

[roman-v-m.livejournal.com]

там никто не был - nobody has never gone or travelled there
там никого не было - there was nobody there (no person was present)

до меня там никто не был - nobody has never gone or travelled there before me
до меня там никого не было - there was nobody there before my coming (no person was present before my coming e.g. in the conference hall, the room etc)

я там не была - I've never been there.
меня там не было - I wasn't present there (I was somewhere else)

после шести там никто не бывает - nobody goes/comes there after six
после шести там никого не бывает - after six the place is empty, all people have gone

он не был в школе - he didn't go to school
его не было в школе - he wasn't at school (at all or in some particular moment)

As you see the first construction (active) is used when you want to say that some person or anybody has never been to/visited/attended some place and the second one (passive) expresses the idea of somebody's absence/nobody's presence in some place.