How many words do you need

[dmitryviewshkin.livejournal.com]

Another proof that a Russian speaker often needs more words to express the same idea, compared to an English speaker. I've just translated a header (for my Debate Club) "Toy Story 3 is sexist", and the best I could think of was "История игрушек-3 " насыщена шаблонами и стереотипами по отношению к женщинам".

Comments

[mithrilian.livejournal.com]

It's just a term that originated in English is all. Try translating валенки by a single word. :))))))

[mithrilian.livejournal.com]

...WITH a single word.... my brain is offline...

[dmitryviewshkin.livejournal.com]

valenkis )) as in blinis

[mithrilian.livejournal.com]

So I've met сексист ^) Not really a Russian word yet, but who knows, it may catch on.

[trilbyhat.livejournal.com]

Why, it IS a Russian word. It's been assimilated, I think, in the 90-s or earlier. Just look http://yandex.ru/yandsearch?text=+сексист&lr=213
Сексизм is even more wide-spread http://yandex.ru/yandsearch?text=сексизм&lr=213

[towarysc.livejournal.com]

"История игрушек-3" - сексист? Or "История игрушек-3" сексистска? Сексистна?
The thing is, while the term exists, there's no proper wordbuilding basis for it yet. I could offer "История игрушек-3" является сексистским произведением мультипликационного киноискусства, but it is no shorter than the topicstarter's variant :)

[dmitryviewshkin.livejournal.com]

As if we've never had it in Russia?

[mithrilian.livejournal.com]

They made a term earlier, because they realised this as a social phenomenon earlier.

[trurle.livejournal.com]

"sexism" is non-word, lacking any substance it purports to describe. As a result, it is difficult to translate the word outside of its cultural context.

[trilbyhat.livejournal.com]

"История игрушек" проникнута сексизмом - why not say it this way? Шаблоны and стереотипы are no more 'authentically Russian' than сексизм.

[konstkaras.livejournal.com]

You sentence can be shortened by replacement of "по отношению" with "о", "насыщен" with "полон" and maybe choice of one term instedad of "шаблонами и стереотипами". In English there are the same means to make phrases longer and look smart make a complicated impression.

[dmitryviewshkin.livejournal.com]

You can't say "шаблонами о женщинах" or "стереотипами о женщинах"

[konstkaras.livejournal.com]

A serious organization (http://archive.amnesty.org/report2007/rus/Regions/Europe-and-Central-Asia/Czech-Republic/default.htm) says this way; we can even use something like "избитыми представлениями"
Also, what's difference between "шаблоны" and "стереотипы"? If fisrt relates to words and images and second to ideas, don't you think that "шаблоны" mean not the very sexist background, but just some lack of creativity?

[la-dy-ashley.livejournal.com]

Why can´t you say "стереотипами о женщинах"?

[dmitryviewshkin.livejournal.com]

Стереотип (кого? чего?) поведения, восприятия.
http://gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?word=%F1%F2%E5%F0%E5%EE%F2%E8%EF&all=x

[la-dy-ashley.livejournal.com]

If it's not listed it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
It's used all the time and doesn't sound weird to me at all:
http://www.google.com/search?q=%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BF+%D0%BE&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:ru:official&client=firefox

How else would you render a phrase like "stereotypes about Russia"? If not стереотипы о России?

[dmitryviewshkin.livejournal.com]

As one of my professors would say (to the argument, that smth. exists): There is a linguistic norm, a custom, an accepted way of speaking, tested by at least one generation, and there is an ambition to become one. There is a reason it's not listed. It's not there yet.

[la-dy-ashley.livejournal.com]

My point is that they didn't list all the possible variants in the article, they just gave an example of usage. For example, the phrase you're using in the post, стереотип по отношению к чему-л., isn't there either. If we go with your logic, you shouldn't be using it.

[dmitryviewshkin.livejournal.com]

стереотип (поведения) /в отношении/по отношению к/ женщин/ам

[la-dy-ashley.livejournal.com]

The phrase "стереотип поведения" is a term and is not the same as just a stereotype as is pointed out in the comment below. That´s why it was separately mentioned in the article. It has nothing to do with the grammatical collocation.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BF_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F

I´m not even going to argue anymore.

[konstkaras.livejournal.com]

This does not contradict possibility of стереотип о ком? о чём? "Стереотип поведения" means kind of stereotype but not its topic, "стереотип о поведении" has other meaning.
ruscorpora.ru shows 10 examples of "стереотип о..." datig since 2000

[riegel.livejournal.com]

"История игрушек-3" - сексистский фильм.

But if your translation is aimed at a wider audience who may not know know what sexism is, then you'll have to put it down that way. The problem here is not the Russian language, but Russian education and the fact that few people care about gender issues and equality.

[merry1978.livejournal.com]

The problem is, Russian official language (including that of newspapers) tends to be much more bureaucratese than normal spoken or even literary language.

The phrase you discuss is a perfect example of that. It's not that we need more words, it's that many people think that the more long and oficially-looking words, the better. Of course, it's just a common style mistake.

I'd say simply "Сексизм в "Истории игрушек-3". It's the best for the title.

[dmitryviewshkin.livejournal.com]

It's a debate, not a seminar or lecture. What's the motion then? Do you agree, that...?
But I see your point. We might need two headers then.

[cassandraclue.livejournal.com]

"Сексизм в "Истории игрушек-3" is a translation for "Sexism in 'Toy Story 3,'" not "Toy Story 3 is Sexist." The latter is a much stronger statement, and a declaration. The first one could just mean that, say, there are some sexist characters, not that the whole film is from a sexist point of view.

[dmitryviewshkin.livejournal.com]

I got a new one. Longer. )))
"История игрушек-3 " - еще один пример того, как, до сих пор, стереотипны и однобоки наши представления о роли женщины в обществе.

[huzhepidarasa.livejournal.com]

http://www.gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?lop=x&word=%F1%E5%EA%F1%E8*

[arashi-opera.livejournal.com]

I'd say "шовинистическая".

[petitevache.livejournal.com]

I usually find Russian to be a lot more concise than English.

[vovanium.livejournal.com]

Russian is often require less words, because there are much less syntactic word usage (like be, do, have, to, by, a/an). However words are often longer due to lots of affixes.

And, this seems to be not translation but approximate paraphrase.

I'd say "«История игрушек-3» женоненавистническая" (сексистская is also suitable but more modern).