(no subject)

[miconazole.livejournal.com]

Hay doodz

How do you say something IS [some attribute]? For instance, if someone tells you "You run like a girl" you might reply "I AM a girl!" And how would you phrase the opposite, e.g. "You don't look like Mexicans"/"We're NOT Mexicans"?

Also, how would you translate the question "Is what is moral commanded by God because it is moral, or is it moral because it is commanded by God?" Specifically, how do you handle the "is" at the beginning? Somehow, just sticking a question mark on the end doesn't seem to cut it... ;)

Thanks :)
miconazole

Comments

[calibrono.livejournal.com]

first
"Ты бегаешь как девчонка!" "Я и есть девчонка!"
"Вы не выглядите как мексиканцы" "Мы и не мексиканцы"

[miconazole.livejournal.com]

Thanks :D

[gera.livejournal.com]

you might reply "I AM a girl!

Я и есть девочка.

"We're NOT Mexicans"?

Мы и не мексиканцы.

"Is what is moral commanded by God because it is moral, or is it moral because it is commanded by God?"

То, что морально заповедовано Богом, потому что это морально, или это морально, потому что заповедовано Богом?

[miconazole.livejournal.com]

Lol, so you do just put a question mark on it. Thanks xD

[khathi.livejournal.com]

Russian doesn't use copula that much, and basically has a free word order, so that "'is' at the beginning" simply doesn't mean anything in Russian. Question is indicated mostly by intonation and sentence stress, not by grammar -- the whole phrase would be "То, что морально, заповедано Богом потому что оно морально, или оно морально, потому что заповедано Богом?" in Russian.

[khathi.livejournal.com]

I know. ;)

[zeqfreed.livejournal.com]

Потому ли духовное выбрано Богом, что духовно, или же духовно оно потому, что выбрано Богом?

[devitor.livejournal.com]

'Выбрано' is 'selected'. In context, it's either 'дано' or 'заповедано'.

[oryx_and_crake]

moral cannot be translated as духовное

[zeqfreed.livejournal.com]

I'd say this is rather an interpretation, than a translation. Moreover, the original sentence is a well-known Euthyphro dilemma, which can be translated into Russian hundreds of ways still conveying the same sense.

And 'moral' can be translated as 'духовный'.

[oryx_and_crake]

Please give an example of a context where you can translate it that way, then; in the context we discuss it's certainly wrong.

[zeqfreed.livejournal.com]

Speaking about contexts. I've answered what miconazole had asked, it's his choice whether to accept my tranlation in this context. With you I have no intention to argue.

[oryx_and_crake]

As you wish. But if you post something that is obviously wrong, you should be ready that other people will correct you.

[devitor.livejournal.com]

More formal way: "Мы не являемся мексиканцами".
There is a verb 'to be' in Russian but it is omitted in present time: 'Я не [есть] девочка', 'Она не [есть] хорошая'. You may see in some rare texts 'to be' in plural as 'суть': 'Грубость, неряшливость, жадность - суть пороки человека'.

I'd translate the sentence like this:
'То, что хорошо, заповедано Богом потому, что это хорошо, или же это хорошо потому, что оно заповедано Богом?'

[2007april.livejournal.com]

Моральное морально потому, что оно заповедано Богом, или оно заповедано Богом потому, что морально?

"Я и есть девочка" or "Так я же девочка и есть"
"А мы и не мексиканцы"

[pinky-the-cow.livejournal.com]

A bit shorter and more emotional suitable answers would be: "Да девочка я!", "Да не мексиканцы мы!"

And regarding the second question of yours, I'm proud to say that you're correct in your doubts and people are definitely overestimating ordinary ability to express and perceive intonation. Basically, by the time you manage to get to the part where your intonation is to hint the question nature of the sentence, the listener have already forgotten the beginning of the sentence and gets confused, having to recollect it.

What is simple and usually forgotten is that "Is" has an actual translation. It means "быть", "являться", "есть". And also, I don't remember what's the name for the type of question you provided, but as far as I remember, it's best translated with "ли" particle.

And with all that knowledge in mind, the outcomes which are unmistakeably question:
"Является ли духовное заповеданным Богом потому, что оно духовно, или же оно духовно потому, что заповедывается Богом?"
"Заповедывается ли Богом духовное потому, что оно духовно, или же оно духовно потому, что заповедывается Богом?"

[pinky-the-cow.livejournal.com]

"Духовно" might be worse that "нравственно" in the translation, but I'm not sure of the contexts and not that religious. But I'd vote it not to be "морально" here, as that is usually used for different meaning in Russian.

[oryx_and_crake]

духовно is way off, I don't think you can use духовно as translation for "moral" in any context

[zeqfreed.livejournal.com]

Please refer to the dictionary before accusing someone for misuse of words.

[oryx_and_crake]

I don't care about the dictionary; I know both languages and I say this translation is wrong.

[pinky-the-cow.livejournal.com]

Multitran and Muller dictionary disagree with you still.
Even though there is little examples of that translation ("moral courage" = "духовные силы" on multitran), the initial sentence reminded me of the people who preach religion solving everything. The problems: crimes, corruption, delinquency, impoliteness, criticism towards one's own government, democratic views — all are signs of grave degradation that stem from the lack of "духовность" for them.

It still sounded fishy, when I pondered a bit, hence the (lame) attempt to point out my doubts.

[oryx_and_crake]

Anyone can add anything to Multitran, so this is really not a proof of anything. I, for example, would not agree that "moral courage" can be translated as "духовные силы". Душевные maybe, but not духовные.


----
The problems: crimes, corruption, delinquency, impoliteness, criticism towards one's own government, democratic views all are signs of grave degradation that stem from the lack of "духовность" for them.
----
This is very far-fetched. There is some distant association, but no direct relation.