translation
Oct. 16th, 2007 09:10 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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learn_russianHow do I translate "юридические лица"? I was guessing legal entity, but I have a feeling it means something closer to a corporation.
soidisantfille.livejournal.com posting in learn_russian
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Date: 2007-10-16 07:13 pm (UTC)(http://www.lingvo.ru)
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Date: 2007-10-16 07:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-16 07:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-16 07:15 pm (UTC)Even legal entities, who have held the land as theirs, now have the right only to a long-term rent of 49 years.
Am I wrong?
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Date: 2007-10-16 07:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-17 12:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-17 04:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-17 04:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-17 06:52 am (UTC)I think that "organizations" is better, since it is more general. A company is an organization. OTOH, not all organizations are юридические лица - they have to be somehow registered.
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Date: 2007-10-17 06:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-17 07:51 am (UTC)Same in Russian.
so maybe I can leave it as "companies with a registered claim to the land" or something like that
You can probably get away with this for the purposes of your translation. However, consider the Pension Fund of Russian Federation (PFRF) as an example. It is a юридическое лицо. It is an organization (a public institution). But it is not a company.
Maybe "legal entities" is indeed better. The gotcha with this term is that it can be used to refer to all entities recognized by the law, including natural persons (individuals). "Juristic person" is more precise and is a valid term, but I personally hesitate to use it because I rarely see it used elsewhere.
Confusing, isn't it?
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Date: 2007-10-17 08:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-17 07:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-17 07:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-17 08:08 am (UTC)Like: Even companies, which have held the ownership of land plots, are now entitled only to a long-term rent of 49 years.
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Date: 2007-10-17 08:23 am (UTC)But we want to avoid Runglish, no? :-)
On the second thought, "organization" may be OK here, since only those organizations that are юридические лица can own land.
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Date: 2007-10-17 07:50 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-17 10:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-17 12:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-18 01:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-17 06:32 pm (UTC)it is a mailing list of professional translators
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Date: 2007-10-17 07:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-17 11:20 pm (UTC)I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me, they are different. In particular (again, I'm not a lawyer), it seems 'juristic person' can be made out of an individual, while 'юридическое лицо' HAS to be an organization.
Meaning, if I want to make a 'juristic person', I just go and do formalities, but if I want to make a 'юридическое лицо', I have to open a company that I own, make myself the only employee and start paying taxes.
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Date: 2007-10-18 01:15 am (UTC)---
who says that?
there is a status of ПБОЮЛ (предприниматель без образования юридического лица) which would not make any sense if a person could not be a юридическое лицо anyway.
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Date: 2007-10-18 01:30 am (UTC)Well, first, it is my impression, but I'm not a specialist at all. Second, according to Wikipedia, 'Юридическое лицо по российскому законодательству — организация, которая...'. Wikipedia also says, that 'В законодательстве РФ нет чёткого определения понятия "юридическое лицо".'. My point is that English and Russian terms may have a slightly different meaning, while misunderstanding in business might be fatal. I would not translate them literally, but find out, what they mean and maybe use something like "juristic person, that is formed by an organization and..." instead of just "juristic person".
Now as you mentioned "частный предприниматель", I wonder, if this is the correct translation of the "juristic person".
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Date: 2007-10-18 12:51 pm (UTC)I know your point is that the Russian law may interpret these terms differently. It is possible, although I doubt it. All I can say is that the case where I came across this term involved a contract dispute (the contract was in Russian, concluded with a European counterpart). The team had a couple of Russian lawyers who spoke excellent English and a couple of American lawyers who spoke very decent Russian (one was completely fluent). I asked both, and both agreed that "юридическое лицо" is "juridical person" in English.
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Date: 2007-10-18 03:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-20 02:34 pm (UTC)Nope, this information is four years outdated. In the current Civil Code, there is no such status. It is replaced by ИП (индивидуальный предприниматель) -- private enterpreneur, I'd say - who IS a legal entity. I know this fairly well because this is exactly what I am, an ИП.