[identity profile] thbslawson.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] learn_russian
Greetings all,

I've been learning a spattering of Russian here and there over the past year or so, and am glad to join the group here.

I have a question regarding pronunciation, especially in Choral music, if anyone can help. I know that in most cases when "o" is unstressed in Russian it is pronounced like an "a", and sometimes, although I'm not sure what the rule is for this, the "g" takes on a "v" sound. Therefore when I read the text from Alexander Grechaninov's Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom it would sound like this Veruyu vo edinavo Gospada Iisusa Khrista, Syna Bozhiya, edinarodnava. What's interesting is that on both of the recordings I have, one by a Chezh Choir, the other by an English, the words are not only written but are pronounced, edinago...Gospoda...edinorodnago, and in other parts of the work yevo is pronounced yego. Is this an old way of pronouncing or is it a mistake? I can understand the English choir messing it up, but I would assume that someone in the Czech choir would know. I can't seem to find a Russian recording, and the Russians I know here in the states haven't a clue about sacred choral music. Thanks for the help.

S Bogom,
Thomas

Date: 2003-06-11 09:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lexabear.livejournal.com
I can't comment on the rest, but the g->v rule you picked up on describes the sound of the masculine genetive adjectival inflection (-evo or -ovo; spelled with a g, sounds like a v) in current Russian. In word-final position (e.g. in a word like друг "drook" (friend)), g sounds like k. Otherwise, a g is a g!

This is all in current Russian; I don't know the rules for churchy, older stuff.

Date: 2003-06-11 10:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] karakal.livejournal.com
In Russian church choral music - even if performed by contemporary choirs and even if written by contemporary composers - singers strictly follow the pattern of the written language (including words with old types of spelling, such as edinorodnAgo). They will always pronounce 'ogo' (or Ago as in the example a few words before), not 'ovo' etc. It is the normal language of Russian Orthodox clergy conducting masses and other church services.
So, the Czech choir is absolutely correct.

Date: 2003-06-11 11:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sekhet.livejournal.com
Yup, the choral music will be pronounced differently - closer to Old Church Slavonic - than current spoken Russian. The "g" pronunciation you mentioned, as [livejournal.com profile] karakal pointed out, is standard. Another example of this is the name of the eponymous protagonist of Dr. Zhivago -- The
-ago ending in "Zhivago" is an old russian form of the genitive singular....

Other peculiarities you may notice is the pronunciation of initial "g" as a soft "kh", as in "gospoda". Even in modern russian some people, especially the eldery, will say as an exclamation "ai, gospodi," pronouncing it "khospodi"... that's the liturgical influence.


Not much really to contribute, sorry -- just some random factoids for you. :)

Date: 2003-06-11 12:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yers.livejournal.com
singers strictly follow the pattern of the written language

isn't it, rather, the other way round - the original Russian spelling had been construed on the basis of Church Slavonic pronunciation?

Date: 2003-06-11 02:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] karakal.livejournal.com
You're right. The Russian spelling is still mostly based on Church Slavonic pronunciation, it's true. But... the written language as reflected in pronunciation can only be distinctly heard in choirs or solo singers performing church music.

Date: 2003-06-11 12:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yers.livejournal.com
Russian Orthodox lithurgies are in Church Slavonic, a language different from Russian. Here (http://www.livejournal.com/community/learn_russian/2159.html) is my post with some basic facts about it.

Date: 2003-06-11 12:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] irkin.livejournal.com
It's the old Russian. It's still used in churches' services and prayers. AFAIK from prayers it really should sound as edinago, Gospoda, etc.

You can go here (http://www.san.pp.ru/molitva/otche.htm) to see the prayer "Our father"(?) in old Russian and in Russian that was spoken before the revolution :) And here (http://newapostols.narod.ru/molitva.html) - how it would sound in normal Russian.

Date: 2003-06-11 12:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yers.livejournal.com
I might be a nuisance but I insist, again and again, that this is Church Slavonic, not Russian, old or new. The Song of Igor's Raid, a lay epic, is in Old Russian.

Date: 2003-06-11 02:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sekhet.livejournal.com
I add my voice to the nuisance list with [livejournal.com profile] yers in emphasizing the difference between old russian and old church slavonic.

Modern Russian has influences both from "high" and from "low": the elevated liturgical language, that is, old church slavonic -- and the common vernacular language, old russian.

The two have similarities (largely in that they're both slavic languages) but are two distinct languages each used in very separate contexts. I took a very interesting stylistics course in which we read texts in both and then had to find influences in later texts -- I wish I could remember more details of contributions each has made that would be familiar to a speaker of modern russian.

Reading old fairytales is a good introduction to old russian influences. And there's always the wacky Protopop Avvakum for people interested the evolution of modern Russian -- it can be fairly tricky to read, however.

Date: 2003-06-12 02:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] irkin.livejournal.com
Oh, I've been mistaken. Very sorry.

Date: 2003-06-11 08:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lexabear.livejournal.com
It's called the "Lord's Prayer" in English.

Date: 2003-06-12 07:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] irkin.livejournal.com
Thank you.

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