Improving and correcting

[olydiagron.livejournal.com]

Dear friends!
Would anyone like to give me example of the usage of исправить and попрaвить?
As far as I understand, исправить is when you make a wrong right, when you straiten something out, and попрaвить is when you make something better by adjusting it a bit?
I am thinking of "исправительная колония" (поправительная колония sounds funny.. :), and "поправить шарф".

But when it comes to ошибки, can they be both исправленные and поправленные? And when I have corrected all misstakes in a text - has it been popravlen or ispravlen?
I usually say that I "исправляю" if it is simple grammatical mistakes or spelling, but "поправляю" if somebody recommended to improve the syntax, did I get it wrong?
/Amanda

Comments

[mithrilian.livejournal.com]

I am поправляю you when you get something wrong. You then исправляешь your mistake. A teacher поправляет his pupil and исправляет his mistakes.

However,

I am исправляю bad children by whipping them and then they know that they need поправить their clothes before entering my presence.

Correct me if I am wrong = Поправь меня, если что.

Fix this, it's wrong = Исправь это, это неверно.

Hmm... I can't seem to be able to formulate a rule. You are right about adjusting=поправить.

Update. I think I am getting it.

Исправить =
1 fix something or somebody (исправить плохого человека, исправиться, исправить то, что нуждается в исправлении)

2 fix a result of own/someone's action (исправить ошибку)

Поправить =
1 Adjust some object to a correct position (поправить криво висящую картину, поправить шарф)
2 inform someone else that his action is incorrect (поправить ученика)

[olydiagron.livejournal.com]

спасибо!

[oiseau-russe.livejournal.com]

When you speak about grammatical or orthographical (or any onter) mistakes, it's always исправить. Поправить may be used in the sens "to improuve", to make something that is not completely wrong better.

Поправить ошибку sounds completely wrong to me even if I cannot give you a rule for that ;). You can поправить того, кто ошибся, that is to correct someone's mistake by pointing to them thir error end/or giving them th correct answer. But if in English in this context the action is directed to the mistake, in russian it is directed to the person that made a mistake. So you can say исправить ошибку or поправить человека, сделавшего ошибку. I hope that it is more or less clear...

[olydiagron.livejournal.com]

Thank you! so i will always ispravit' oshibki!

[viata.livejournal.com]

1. Yes, you get the difference right.

But :>

2. Fixing mistakes is always исправить. Perfecting stylistics is usually поправить, although you may also say исправить in this case too.

Basically, поправить means perfect (a little) something that's already okay the way it is OR adjust position. Исправить implies the original variant is definitely not okay and needs fixing.
E.g. "мне надо поправить здоровье" implies I'm not seriously ill, just feeling somewhat off. On the other hand, you can not "исправить здоровье". Even poor health is already a start, not everything is wrong, so you try to поправить it instead of исправить.

Also, you can поправить something and the result will still be not perfect. Исправить, however, means that your job is done and nothing left to be desired. It is better used when there is a clearly defined standard of what's right. Поправить is more vague, you can't always say what result you want to achieve: "она постоянно поправляла волосы и никак не могла достигнуть совершенства". It doesn't mean her hair is objectively wrong, she just doesn't quite like it.
The only exception is "поправь меня, если я ошибаюсь". I believe you know the correct variant and expect you to tell me when I deviate from it. But I can't say "исправь меня", because it would imply there is a universal standard for perfect people and I want you to make me fit it. Исправление always implies compliance with a clearly defined standard.

[olydiagron.livejournal.com]

thank you!
"Also, you can поправить something and the result will still be not perfect. Исправить, however, means that your job is done and nothing left to be desired. "
That is why popravitel'naya koloniya sounds funny, i guess… although on second thoughts, it might be more accurate .-)

[viata.livejournal.com]

I think it sounds funny because there actually is a clearly defined standard: don't break laws and all that. Plus, well, why would you lock them up if you think they're already okay as is? :>

Btw, исправить стилистику = you made mistakes, you can't phrase it like this, let's fix it. Поправить стилистику = well...it's not a mistake, but I can help you make it sound better (to my taste).

[zoa-mel-gustar.livejournal.com]

You can only исправить grammatical errors, but you can both поправит and исправить the text in general. Also, one can say, for example, "поправь вот тут" or "у тебя буква пропущена в заголовке, надо поправить"; I'm not sure if that's actually grammatically correct, but in my experience such expressions are common in, at least, informal conversation.

[olydiagron.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[morgulis.livejournal.com]

In addition to upper comments, "поправить" is more suitable for minor mistakes, especially when a person talks. "Я был в Италии дважды. Нет, пожалуй, трижды, если считать поездку с родителями в детстве" - поправился Иван". "Я говорю с ошибками и благодарен, когда меня поправляют".

Also, rarely, "исправлять/справлять" (but not "поправлять") may mean "осуществлять, делать": исправлять обязанности, справлять нужду.

Исправный - работающий, не сломанный.
Исправник (old, 19th century and earlier) - член суда.
"Горбатого могила исправит" - the proverb.

[dil.livejournal.com]

You can "поправить человека", but generally can't "исправить".

[dil.livejournal.com]

Basically ошибки should be исправлены.
If they are поправлены, this would mean they've been changed, but still are errors.
"Исправить текст" - fix it, e.g. remove errors, "поправить текст" - improve it. Can also be "подправить" - slightly improve.

[lion-casserole.livejournal.com]

.
In Slavic languages "правый" - means both "right" ( e.g. правая рука ) and "straight" ( e.g. честный суд == правый суд ). "Править" also means "to reign" or "to rule". A coachman is a man whose business it is to drive a horse-powered cab ("править лошадьми)."

Keeping that in mind and speaking about texts: "исправить" normally means "to re-work", "re-do", "re-develop", "re-construct", "find-and-fix sources of fault(s)"; while "поправить" - normally means "finish", "finalize", "adjust", "align" -- that is a kind of some make-up for already known mistakes.

поправить прическу
поправить одежду или головной убор
предложить поправки, внести поправки
поправить стиль

исправить опечатку