нога = leg or foot? How do you distinguish?

[david-us.livejournal.com]

How do Russians make the distinction between "leg" and "foot"?

Yes, I understand there are many standard phrases where it is understood. But that isn't always the case.

When babies are just learning to talk a common "game" to play with them is to say:

"Touch mommy's nose." 

"Now touch mommy's ear."

"Where are mommy's lips?"

"Where are mommy's eyes?"

"Can you find mommy's chin?"

Babies love this game and it is very instructive. They are playing and learning - all at the same time.

But what does the poor baby do when you ask ...

"Где нога мамы?" or "Где рука мамы?"

Why don't Russians have separate word for leg/foot and arm/hand?

If you want somebody to wave their hand - how do you get them to do that without it being misinterpreted as "Wave your arm?"

 

 

Comments

[dekarmi.livejournal.com]

No separate words were needed in fact. We did with one. Before your note. But now I doubt whether we'll be able to do this way any longer...

[thumm.livejournal.com]

By default, when you say рука in the context of "Где мамина рука?" or "Где у мамы рука?" (not "Где рука мамы?", by the way), you rather mean arm than hand. Same for legs/feet.
If you want to explicitly accentuate hand or foot you say "ладонь" (or "кисть руки") and "ступня", respectively.
However in colloqual non-anatomic contexts like in "wave your hand" you use "рука" ("помахай маме ручкой") and it doesn't lead to any confusion, actually. After all, how often do you say to anyone "Wave your arm"? And since the latter expression is not of much use, the explicit differentiation in this case is redundant.

[surkova.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry to mention, but it's помаши маме ручкой, not помахай.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

+1 - помахай is very colloquial, the normative form is помаши.

[thumm.livejournal.com]

Surely you're right.
It was quite late last night, no idea what I was thinking writing it :)

[scolar.livejournal.com]

The word "нога" из used for the whole lower limb. We do have separate words for the different parts of it: "пальцы" (yes, we use the same word for toes and fingers, and thumb is the finger too), "ступня", "лодыжка", "голень", "колено", "бедро".

[rower.livejournal.com]

the same is true for upper extremities -- "плечо, локоть, предплечье, запястье, пясть, ладонь" - there is a specific word for each specific part of upper extremity. however, рука usually means upper limb + palm as a whole. :)

[mithgol.livejournal.com]

and «щиколотка»

[a-d-i-o-s.livejournal.com]

А еще "пятка". Ну самое уязвимое место...

[ponny1.livejournal.com]

wow!!! thumb is not a finger/toe in English??

But "there are 5 fingers on each hand"! that's what I told to my son (in English). How could it be?

[scolar.livejournal.com]

I believe, thumb is a finger. In my comment I referred to English names of the fingers:
thumb, index finger, middle finger, ring finger and little finger. You cannot say "thumb finger" in English, but in Russian thumb is "большой палец".

[darth-biomech.livejournal.com]

Нога is a "leg", while foot is a "ступня". So and "arm" is "рука" and hand is "ладонь" or "кисть" (руки). Or even "arm" too. %)

No doubts we can differ these when there is a reason for that

[lion-casserole.livejournal.com]

.
He lost his right leg = Он потерял правую ногу. (e.g. it was amputated in full) <> Он потерял правую ногу по колено.
He lost his right foot = Он потерял левую ступню.
He lost his hand = Он потерял руку.
He lost his palm = Он потерял кисть.

Speaking about body parts in Russian one could be very specific, while normally there is no need in that. A baby does not need to differ mom's shoulder and palm, both are pars of mom's arm(s).

Re: No doubts we can differ these when there is a reason for that

[mithrilian.livejournal.com]

Not really. palm=ладонь, hand=кисть (or рука in пожать руку).

Re: No doubts we can differ these when there is a reason for that

[lion-casserole.livejournal.com]

.
Right. My bad...

He lost his arm = Он потерял руку.
He lost his hand = Он потерял кисть.

BTW, what are English expressions for "игра рукой" in soccer?

Re: No doubts we can differ these when there is a reason for that

[cassandraclue.livejournal.com]

handball

Re: No doubts we can differ these when there is a reason for that

[lion-casserole.livejournal.com]

.
Thanks. Yep, Hand ball: a foul where a [field] player touches the ball with his hand or arm [...].

My question is: is there another standard wording for that? I remember that waking up a German-speaking referee we (Russian and German speaking boys) used to cry "hands".

Re: No doubts we can differ these when there is a reason for that

[cassandraclue.livejournal.com]

I don't think so. It's been ten years since I played at school, but I'm pretty sure that we don't say "hands" or anything else beside "handball."

In Soviet Russia, the hand waves you!

[yms.livejournal.com]

When Russians say "помаши рукой" ("wave your hand"), they don't feel the difference between "arm" and "hand", since "рука" is usually both. If you want, you can indicate the part of "рука" more precisely ("кисть руки"), but this is used more rarely than "hand" in English. If you say in Russian "помахать кистью руки", such precision would sound funny because "кисть" is unnecessary (which part of рука do you wave usually?).

Re: In Soviet Russia, the hand waves you!

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Well, this reflects a bit of physical reality. It's rather hard to wave one's hand without having the whole arm involved, at least in a gesture typical for Russian culture (most Russians wave their upper extremity from elbow to fingers, not just their palm.) And it's quite impossible to wave one's arm without having involved the hand!

Re: In Soviet Russia, the hand waves you!

[lion-casserole.livejournal.com]

.
... it's quite impossible to wave one's arm without having involved the hand!

I am pretty sure some ballet dancers can do that!

Re: In Soviet Russia, the hand waves you!

[pastilla.livejournal.com]

Interesting point in light of this discussion. Russian ballet dancers obviously are some of the finest in the world --- do they must have specialized lingo to help differentiate the subtle differences of hand/arm (French?).

Re: In Soviet Russia, the hand waves you!

[lion-casserole.livejournal.com]

.
There is the language of conductor's hands. In martial arts and sports there are slang-level names for flat-hand and fist-hand, as well as weak-fist and strong-fist, etc.

Re: In Soviet Russia, the hand waves you!

[rower.livejournal.com]

french, indeed. however - as far as i remember (some 3 years in summercamps with ice-ballet) - there are 7 basic arm positions, and no specification on hands (it's always assumed just standart "royal" palm - facing inwards, with thumb and middle finger tending to touch).
:)

aand, i think we are getting a bit off topic. (blush)

[zauberer.livejournal.com]

Both Russian and English languages have words for both parts of upper (lower) extremities. The difference is only in word usage. As far as I can tell, English words "hand" and "arm" are used mostly to describe respective parts, not a whole extremity, so the mental image corresponding to each of the said words is a part. In Russian, though, the word рука could be used to denote any part of the extremity or the whole extremity, if the context doesn't require more specific name. Я поранил руку could mean either I have wounded my hand or I have wounded my arm when the context doesn't call for more specific word (and it doesn't, usually). So it's mostly “point of view” question, in Russian people just don't feel the need to differentiate those meanings in most contexts.

[zauberer.livejournal.com]

And about "wave your arm" situation: since it is really awkward to interpret помаши маме ручкой as wave your arm to mommy, nobody interprets it this way, it's just that simple. :)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Simply speaking, it's just impossible to wave your arm without waving your hand :)

[dekarmi.livejournal.com]

wave your elbow to mommy is possible

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

What for? :)

[dekarmi.livejournal.com]

at least for fun

[ponny1.livejournal.com]

well, at least for dancing in Chicken Dance/Танец утят (yeaahh, they are chiks in English version) ))

[annyway.livejournal.com]

Usually, when you tell a baby "Wave your hand", you also show how to do this. ;)

[orie.livejournal.com]

for some russian people it'sunclear, what's the difference between leg and foot :)

there's a word "ступня" for foot, but it's usage is very limited. normally you can call a foot "нога", e.g. "размер ноги" - "foot (shoe) size".

it's actually very often that in one language you have one word and two (or more) words in the other language. it's not a problem for babies at all :)

and - you can't wave your arm, so when you say "помаши рукой" it's absolutely clear that it's the hand that you mean :)

[marsianka-selma.livejournal.com]

We made it easier for you to learn Russian - just one word for both ;)

[vovanium.livejournal.com]

Arm and hand for russian is like синий and голубой for english.

[rower.livejournal.com]

err.. is it really that difficult bad?

btw, does "english" rainbow have 7 colors ?

[vovanium.livejournal.com]

I don't think it is bad. I remember the same with облако and туча. And same with exact, precise and accurate.

Btw, "english" rainbow have 7 colors. Physical rainbow have infinite number of colors, but how many one human "see" is a matter of social alignment.

[ponny1.livejournal.com]

nope, newton's rainbow has 6 colours!! and in some books I saw only six colours. But in the Children's Britannica there are 7 colours: blue, INDIGO, and violet.

[ponny1.livejournal.com]

but we have the word "Ступня" that means foot. Toddlers don't now this word, but pre-schoolers know it.

And we ask our kids "Где мамина рука"? "Где мамина нога?" "Где пальцы на ноге?" "Где мамины пальчики? "А где на ножках пальчики?" (we also dont have difference like fingers/toes)

Actually, I have been studying English for... about 20 years, and only a while ago I finaly found out that the word "HAND" doesn't mean the whole "Рука". I really thought that a HAND and an ARM are synonyms )))

By the way, in "russian" rainbow we have 7 colours and for me it's unexplainable how can the English language have only 6 colours. синиий/голубой are different colours for us.