Ё

[xxsmoothopexx.livejournal.com]

Does anyone know how it came to be in Russian that the two dots (no idea what they're called) came to not be written on the letter: ё.

Comments

[kolomi9.livejournal.com]

It has really simple explanation.

For native speakers there are not huge diferents between e and Ё.
We have many similar words with these letters.
FOr example.
ЛЁД Ледник.
Мёд Медовый.

So it just easy to write e and do not put any dots and everybody will understand you
So this tradition came from the laziness

[xxsmoothopexx.livejournal.com]

Аааа, хорошо. Cпасибо! :)

[konstkaras.livejournal.com]

All words with ё were pronounced with e before, they are still pronounced this way in Old Church Slavonic. Intoduction of ё in late XVIII century just reflected prononcation change, but in many texts words are still written in older way.

[xxsmoothopexx.livejournal.com]

Я не знала это, спасибо. :)

[konstkaras.livejournal.com]

...except for some words imprted with [ё] already, of course

[alon_68]

Words imported from European languages are traditionally written with йо rather than ё - Йорк, майор, йогурт...

[konstkaras.livejournal.com]

I mean such few words as Нётер, шофёр, лёсс and so on, just for sake of strict logic.

[omened-drunkard.livejournal.com]

You both speak about the different things. You confuse the means of the letter.

For foreigners:

In the words “Нётер”, “шофёр”, “лёсс” ё palatalises the consonants and sounds exactly as “О” itself, so it is incorrect to put “йо” there. Ё differs “шофёр” from “шофор”. It behaves this way after consonants.

While in words “йогурт”, “Йорк” there are two sounds “й” and “о”. Ё replaces them in the 3 ways:
­- In the beginnings of words: ёж [йош];
- After the vowels: переём [пирийом];
- After ъ and ь: подъём [патйом];
Remember that stress is always over ё :)

[spiritrc.livejournal.com]

I'd say that in "шофёр" ё makes difference not only between "шофёр" and "шофор", but also between "шофёр" and "шОфер". The latter is a very common thing to hear among low-educated native Russians.

[spiritrc.livejournal.com]

What about Röntgen? ;) Did you know it was Рёнтген originally? Nowadays, nobody seems to pronounce that proper name properly (pun intended).

So my deep belief is that omitting the dots over ё is a very bad habit.

[andrey-bessonov.livejournal.com]

There are people who are in love with this letter and always use it. Me, for example :)
It's useful for surnames and placenames (mistakes are pretty frequent) and also to distinguish "all" from "everybody". And it's just nice.

[icamel.livejournal.com]

The rule says it is obligatory just in this two cases: in proper names and to avoid misunderstanding. And it's not nice if you are transferring text through non-gomogenic network. There is a great chance is that all ё letters shall be currupt.

noted misprints

[icamel.livejournal.com]

homogenous, corrupt

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

>There is a great chance is that all ё letters shall be currupt

I'd say there WAS. In early 2000s it was still more or less an issue, though only in message body (attachments were OK anyway.) I cannot remember any problems of the sort within the last five years.

[icamel.livejournal.com]

I had last year. It was not all e-mail, it was mixed system involving some proprietary parts. But it was functioning. And there still could be sorting problems also - not everywher and not in most cases, but they are still possible.

[taurvat.livejournal.com]

Yup, natives just know what words have "ё", and don't care much for the writing. Foreigners are another story, though :)

[tlkh.livejournal.com]

I'd be not so confident about natives :)
Pronouncing "e" instead of "ё" and vice versa is the second common mistake after wrong stresses.

[taurvat.livejournal.com]

Only in names like "Кёнигсберг", I fancy :) I don't encounter much of that kind of mistakes in the everyday life. Maybe it's only me, though :)

[alon_68]

Афера-афёра, маневр-манёвр
I have heard even атлёт and шлём from some less educated people.

[taurvat.livejournal.com]

"Афёра" is pretty rare to hear, never have heard "маневр" from anybody except the military, I guess it's part of their argot.
And the latter are just insane :) I guess I'm just surprisingly lucky :)

[tlkh.livejournal.com]

What's about Депардьё (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B4%D1%8C%D1%91,_%D0%96%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%80)?

[omened-drunkard.livejournal.com]

Рёрих and Рёнтген, to complete the picture :)

[dekarmi.livejournal.com]

Writing ё was not welcome by the official Russian orthography rules in 20th century. It was allowed only in children books, language manuals for foreigners and in words whose meanings depend on whether e or ё is put in them.

[merry1978.livejournal.com]

It has never been obligatory. Native speakers always know which forms or which words have "ё", so they do not really need it, except for really specific phrases.

And [Unknown site tag] is right. The letter "Ё" was invented by Karamzin, to reflect the change in pronounciation of some words, where normal E had changed to Ё (it sounds more or less like O after a palatalized consonant). As this change was regular and could be discribed by regular rules, the proposed change in writing was never considered strictly necessary, just optional.

[merry1978.livejournal.com]

Sorry for tag mistake. I meant konstkaras.

[gordin.livejournal.com]

A nice article about the letter (in English, but by a Russian blogger/designer): http://www.artlebedev.com/mandership/119/

Though I personally always write ё. It's a matter of taste, really.

[laertid.livejournal.com]

there's a funny community of the Ё-fans -- bukva_yo

[xxsmoothopexx.livejournal.com]

LOL! People are so silly. :)

[pigmeich.livejournal.com]

By new edition of Russian grammar instruction (don't remember what its true name), you must write "е" instead of "ё" except for words that become homographs: "все" — "всё", for instance.

[xxsmoothopexx.livejournal.com]

Good to know! Thank you.

[firebottle.livejournal.com]

These two are context-dependent. Any more examples? :-)

[pigmeich.livejournal.com]

What's "context-dependent"?

I see you are Russian, so see Ru.Wikipedia (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ё#.D0.95_.D0.B8_.D0.81).

[taurvat.livejournal.com]

"Must write"? I can hardly imagine this to be true. Can you give a precise name for the document with this "new edition"?

[pigmeich.livejournal.com]

Ahem. Maybe "strongly recomends to write" would be closer.

For the link see above.

[2vast2curious.livejournal.com]

> the two dots (no idea what they're called)

           If you're still interested, the dots originate from a diacritic called diaeresis that indicates the vowel is pronounced, while according to the rules of pronunciation of the given language, it shouldn't be. Proper names (Citroën) and derivatives (naïve, moë) are the two most frequent cases of application of diaeresis. It's much more common in Ukrainian (украïньска) and, of course, Quenya (namarië, hlokë).
           However, Russian ё had never been "e with diaeresis", opposing to й, which seems to have once been и with breve (˘). Й does indeed sound more short compared to и.

[xxsmoothopexx.livejournal.com]

Ah, that's interesting. Thank you.

WARNING: More Nerdy Stuff Below

[2vast2curious.livejournal.com]

           I also forgot to mention that diaeresis is sometimes referred to as its German name, ein Umlaut. Notably, in German it's used to alter the pronunciation: the vowel marked with an umlaut becomes more narrow, velar and palatalized (Köln, fünf).

[mr-uef.livejournal.com]

I do use the letter Ё in all documents and memos I produce.
I find it quite regrettable that its use is neglected since it is a part of the language, and quite meaningful, at that. I especially detest the way Microsoft Office makes its non-usage a de-facto standard by its spell-checking system.

[tlkh.livejournal.com]

I think one of the reason why "ё" is not used in text is uncertainty in choosing the proper letter in many words. It's easier to use only one letter instead of looking into dictionaries.

[taurvat.livejournal.com]

Well, some of the typefaces just don't have "ё".

[tlkh.livejournal.com]

It may be ancient fonts that even not correct true type fonts and can be used only in ancient non-Unicode software...

[konstkaras.livejournal.com]

Some Hebrew speakers said that they don't write vowels at all for the same reason as they don't write ё and stresses in Russian texts: it's easier, makes text look better and still leaves it readable. On other hand, most Greek text are written with stresses. So, there is a full spectrum of solutions and Russian is in its middle part.

[photo-hobby.livejournal.com]

nice article about "ё"
in russian:
http://www.artlebedev.ru/kovodstvo/sections/119/
in english:
http://www.artlebedev.com/mandership/119/

[vakhitov.livejournal.com]

My name is Артём, but in my passport it reads Артем. Due to this fact I've been warned by several officials to never write my name as Артём in documents. They said that the documents could be deemed invalid if they contained Артём instead of Артем as if it weren't the same name.