Using the instrumental in the past

[david-us.livejournal.com]

Frequently, I know that Russians put a predicate noun in the instrumental case - mostly for past tense, from what I can tell. I'm not really sure why they do this.

For example: What is the difference between, "Я был пилот." and "Я был пилотом." ?

Does this same structure exist for the future tense? Is it grammatically correct to say "Я буду пилотом."?

* * * * *

Next question - somewhat related:

How would a Russian convey the different connotation in the following English sentences?

"I am a pilot."  - as if I was asked what my occupation is.

"I am the pilot." - it may be obvious that I'm a pilot, but somebody may want to know if I am the pilot for a particular flight.

In English, we can easily convey these different meanings using the words "a" and "the." In situations where the context may not be obvious, I guess a Russian would have to use a few more words to avoid ambiguity - correct?

"Я служу пилотом."

"Я пилот для этого рейса."

Again, thanks!

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Comments

[cherniavska.livejournal.com]

Russians would say:
- Я - летчик.
- Я летчик для этого рейса.

They would understand пилот but летчик is more widely used in everyday conversation, especially when it is related to airplanes only.
As for the first question, you would say "Я был(служил) пилот(ом)/летчик(ом) на авиабазе города Норильска в 1984 году." meaning a particular period in your past life.
"Я был пилотом/летчиком." meaning one of your occupations in the past.

Future tense: "Я буду пилотом/летчиком, когда вырасту/выучусь." is correct.
"Я хочу стать летчиком/пилотом."

[nadyezhda.livejournal.com]

to elaborate, as a student of Russian we learn that when you had a position as something, you actually use the instrumental case: "On byil presidentOM", i.t.d. So that's why you see the -om ending in your example (since it's masculine).

[cherniavska.livejournal.com]

Exactly!

[david-us.livejournal.com]

So, is there no case in which the sentence, "Я был президент," is correct?

It must be президентом in this sentence, no matter what?

[cherniavska.livejournal.com]

It could be correct. In a novel:))
As a beginning:))

Когда-то я был президентом СальвадорОМ Альенде...

[alek-morse.livejournal.com]

///It could be correct. In a novel:))///

For example, if it's the novel about late president Salvador Allende.

"Я был президент Сальвадор Альенде..."

Hmm... No, it's wrong. In this case, being the author I'd like to write so:

"Когда-то я был президентом СальвадорОМ Альенде..." (Before I was President Salvador Allende...)

Re: Когда-то я был президентом СальвадорОМ Альенде...

[cherniavska.livejournal.com]

Я был президент. Жизнь была хороша. Цвели магнолии и бабочки залетали в окна моего кабинета..и так далее и тому подобное..

Re: Когда-то я был президентом СальвадорОМ Альенде...

[alek-morse.livejournal.com]

:)))

I'd replace the word президент with the words Бог or ангел... In my view, your variant is very specific.

Re: Когда-то я был президентом СальвадорОМ Альенде...

[cherniavska.livejournal.com]

As I said, it might be a literary possibility, not everyday one:))

[david-us.livejournal.com]

Yet, earlier, when asking about common Russian words/sentences associated with the airlines, I was told that an airline pilot would probably be referred to as пилот, and probably not лётчик - the difference being somewhat like the English difference between "pilot" and "flyer." Airline pilots are seldom referred to as flyers.

Further, as an occupation, wouldn't пилот be more appropriate?

[cherniavska.livejournal.com]

Well, may be in the professional jargon, пилот is used more than лётчик but to me it just does not sound right.
Пилот космического корабля - да, definitely yes as an occupation.
Пилот самолета - may be, not really, again, may be in the professional jargon since it is heavily influenced by English..
Летчик - yes and it is not equivalent to flyer.

[khathi.livejournal.com]

Real pilots rarely, if ever, call themselves "лётчики". It's a word used by the outsiders, people not connected to aviation.

[cherniavska.livejournal.com]

As I noted in my comment, may be n the professional jargon it is true. I am not familiar with the pilot's professional jargon.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Пилот is a position, лётчик is the entire profession. A лётчик can be командир, второй пилот, штурман etc.
(I once was married to someone who had a Russian commercial airline pilot for brother.)

[alek-morse.livejournal.com]

///Russians would say:
- Я - летчик.
- Я летчик для этого рейса.///

rather, being a russain I'd like to say:

- Я - лётчик.
- Я пилот в этом экипаже. (I'm the pilot for the crew).

The word пилот is more professional one than лётчик.

Let's see another case - with a/the driver.
In this case, I'd like say so:

- Я шофёр. (I'm a driver).
- Я шофёр этой машины (I'm the driver of this car).

[khathi.livejournal.com]

Nope. "Я летчик для этого рейса" sounds really awkward and contrived, like some native English speaker wants to construct the phrase as Russian as possible, but fails. For example, modern spoken Russian doesn't use "для" here. And "лётчик" might be slightly more mainstream, but rarely used among pilots themselves -- they usually say "летун" as a slangish self-reference, or simply "пилот". There's subtle difference in that "лётчик" is used to denote profession in abstract sense, but "пилот" is more often used in "applied" form.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Exactly: пилот is a position while лётчик is the entire profession (лётчик can work as командир, второй пилот, штурман etc. etc.)

[icamel.livejournal.com]

I think that russian would rather say

Я пилот на этот рейс.

[cherniavska.livejournal.com]

I am Russian and either construction does not sound completely right but, I cannot find the proper one at the moment.
There was better one mentioned in the comments - Я пилот в этом экипаже. (I'm the pilot for the crew).

[icamel.livejournal.com]

That depends on the situation.

[cherniavska.livejournal.com]

No question about that:))

[towarysc.livejournal.com]

"Я был(служил) пилот(ом)/летчик(ом)..."
Just a tiny correction: "Я служил лётчик" is incorrect.

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

The difference between "Я был пилот" and "Я был пилотом" is the difference between "The pilot was me" and "I was the/a pilot".

You've got the a/the right for this particular case, however in the right context you can just say "Я пилот" and it could mean either.

[oryx_and_crake]

"Я был пилот" sounds altogether wrong to me.
You can sometime use nominative in such constructions, but this is definitely not one of the cases.

[old-radist.livejournal.com]

"Я был пилотом" - that's a very common case to tell.

And I think one could say "Я был пилот" as well, f.e. if you tell a story in the past and about your role in it.

Compare, f.e. - "Я был батальонный разведчик..."

[karakal.livejournal.com]

Я был пилот is a perfect line for a Zabolotsky-like funny poem.

[yozhevich.livejournal.com]

I was always taught the difference between the nominative vs. the instrumental construction in the past tense was a question of what you do vs. who you are intrinsically. You may find instances like "Я был президент...", empasizing that it wasn't just something he _did_ but who he _was_. More likely you would see instrumental, since it's a profession. On the other hand, "Мой отец был русский" or "Моя бабушка была немка" is easily possible, because your heritage is something that you are born with, values etc. instilled from birth and cannot be changed. With the future, you must always use instrumental, because you will generally be speaking about things that will change and therefore not something intrinsic or permanent. You could say "Я стану летчиком" 'I will become a pilot' (it's what I'm going to do, but my status must change) or "Я буду (служить) летчиком..." (because it's what you do, you're serving in that capacity) if you're talking about a particular flight.

(Please feel free to correct me, this is just how I was taught! It has seemed to work overall.)

[vimvim.livejournal.com]

the pilot/ a pilot
a native Russian would play with the word order and an extra pronoun. As we have no articles but more flexible word order we use it to convey the meaning.
Я работаю пилотом/летчиком (I'm a pilot)
Пилот здесь - я (stronger - I'm the pilot here [not you or someone else])
Я - пилот на этом рейсе.

for я был пилот/пилотом

пилот - we'd rather say that if we're talking about some intrinsic quality with the emphasis on this quality (as if it was an ajective). That is:
он был гений
он был псих
он был силач
conversely, we'd say пилотом if we're talking about a function or a role:
он был примером ("он был пример" is incorrect)
он был лидером ("он был лидер" is far less natural)