Proverbs

[philena.livejournal.com]

Greetings. My grandmother and mother are working on a translation of Jacob Gordon's Yiddish King Lear, and since Gordon's dialect of Yiddish was very heavily influenced by Russian, I have become their source in all things Russian. The most recent question involves a line, spoken by a person who has not been invited to a wedding, which my grandmother has translated from Yiddish as such:

"Well, we haven't danced with the bear."

Is there some Russian proverb involving dancing with bears?

Also, another line goes like this:

"We'll sing a Russian kharavoie, a kazotze."

I'm guessing that kharavoie is from хоровой, but what could kazotze be?

Thank you for any help you can give.

Comments

[noperapon.livejournal.com]

"kharavoie" may be also a form of "каравай" (a round loaf of bread) - a Russian dance involving everybody holding each other's hands and going round in circles
"kazotze" may be "казачок" - traditional Russian dance

[danvolodar.livejournal.com]

That dance is called хоровод, not каравай.
Though there is a game called каравай, played by children in the kindergardens or sth.

Shame on me

[noperapon.livejournal.com]

Ooops...
Didn't think about "хоровод"...

Re: Shame on me

[danvolodar.livejournal.com]

Sith happens ;)

Re: Shame on me

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Хоровод is a dance, not a song, anyway. Though the dancers of хоровод might sing along as well. Here, my knowledge of ancient Russian folk traditions ends :)

[oblomov-jerusal.livejournal.com]

kazotze maybe from казачий. Dancing bear was an attraction shown on ярмарка's by Gypsies.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Yes, I was also thinking about trained bears which danced at fairs. Though this cruel amusement definitely involved no humans dancing with the bear.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

kazotze definitely sounds Yiddish. Or is is from "казачок" (Cossack dance)? No idea.

No Russian proverb involving dances with bears is coming to my mind as well :(

[platonicus.livejournal.com]

As for the bear - do the meanings "we are not clowns" or '...gypsies" (with connotation 'thiefs, beggars') fit?
Dancing with the bear was Gipsies' profession, a sort of entertainment duiring the holidays, weddings, market days and so on.

[dalshe.livejournal.com]

"kharavoie" - "хоровод"?

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

note that they were going to SING it, not DANCE.

[gera.livejournal.com]

This is a distictly Yiddish expression.

"Well, we haven't danced with the bear." - means: It didn't go as well as one (unrealistically) might have expected.
It's sarcastic.

[aka-lacerda.livejournal.com]

"We'll sing a Russian kharavoie, a kazotze."
If "kharavoie" is «хоровое» then "kharavoie" can be a shortcut for «хоровое пение». On the other hand "kazotze" reminds me only of the "Kasatchok" — Ukrainian dance, so there is no relation.
It is also possible that "kharavoie" is «хоровод» but I don't know if it is possible to dance "Kasatchok" in a round dance such as хоровод. The sing in this interpretation is odd but хоровод (thich is in fact folk game, not dance) usually includes singing.

[b0bb.livejournal.com]

Just curious:

Woudn't the translation of King Lear from Yiddish to English result in Shakespeare's King Lear? :)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Not quite, I guess. At least the poor king doesn't sing a kazotze in Shakespeare's :)