Comrade

[gera.livejournal.com]

I just visited Russia and it so happened that I was on a tour with a group of Americans who visited Russia for the first time (and never studied Russian).
At some point а museum attendant addressed one of them as "Товарищ" ("Товарищ, не опирайтесь на колонну!" - "Comrade, don't lean against the column".)
He asked what "Товарищ" meant and when I translated it to him, he was surprised that the word "comrade" wasn't used instead. He was even more surprised to learn that there is no such word in the Russian language.
Moreoever, the entire group was literally astounded to learn that.

So, just in case some of you still don't know: there is no word "comrade" ("комрад") in Russian. It's товарищ.

Comments

[insaint.livejournal.com]

Actually, that word exists. It's spelled "камрад" and it isn't widely used. But, it means the same thing as "товарищ". According to Ushakov's dictionary, it is supposed to be used usually when talking about foreigners.

КАМРАД (http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/ushakov/830206)

[oryx_and_crake]

I'd say it's obsolete, at least, if not completely forgotten.

[insaint.livejournal.com]

I think you're right. It's one of those words that are sometimes used in jest among friends, but you'll never hear it in common daily conversations.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

I have only heard it once in a Russian movie. It was used for an episode of a WWII movie which portrayed a bunch of NSDAP (German Nazi party) members. The actors spoke Russian, but one of them was addressing the others as "камрады". This is, I guess, because the normal salutation among NSDAP members was "Kamerad" -- as opposed to German communists and socialists, who were using "Genosse" instead.

[oryx_and_crake]

I wonder why should they be astounded like that. Comrade is an English word, why should they expect it in Russian? Hollywood movies, maybe?

[gera.livejournal.com]

Exactly. That's what they said.
They didn't realized the word was used as a translation.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Many thanks to Hollywood, again. O Ye Russians who drink their vodkas every other minute.

[ulvesang.livejournal.com]

When did the word "comrade" become associated with Russians and/or communism, anyway??? I rather like the word and use it a little too readilly-- to the confusion of (and sometimes garnering odd from) people around me.

Gotta thank uneducated moviegoers I guess.

[ulvesang.livejournal.com]

Odd looks, I mean.

[oryx_and_crake]

And wave their bab'ushkas merrily around.

[schwarzer-tod.livejournal.com]

In all fairness, America hates its own tourists passionately. (See overheardnyc for reference)

[oryx_and_crake]

Huh? No one hated tourists here...

[oryx_and_crake]

P.S. I think that prohibiting anyone from leaning onto a column in a historical building (regardless whether this person is a tourist or otherwise) is perfectly normal and is not a sign of hating anyone.

[gera.livejournal.com]

I personally think (http://www.livejournal.com/users/gera/467415.html) that the museum personnel went way overboard with that, although, of course it had nothing to do with the tourists being Americans.

[schwarzer-tod.livejournal.com]

See comment below; I wasn't accusing them of anti-American bias.

Groupie, groupie! =P

[schwarzer-tod.livejournal.com]

No no, you've misunderstood. What I mean to say is, typical American tourists (overweight people with fanny packs and too much money to blow, or spoiled college kids who want to party in Europe or Thailand or wherever) aren't always the brightest bulbs, even by our low standards. By saying we despise our own tourists I was trying to distance myself from this kind of disgracefulness. I was under the impression that they were a bunch of typical tourists who didn't even bother to learn the language, not Stanford MBAs visiting for a wedding.

[gera.livejournal.com]

These guys weren't exactly tourists, they were invited by my brother-in-law to attend his wedding and he organized the tours for them.
Besides, they were his former classmates and thus they all were Stanford MBA graduates, not your regular bunch.
And in any case I don't hold this against them, they weren't supposed to know. It's just that I had somehow thought it was obvious and then I realized that it wasn't. So I decided to let the language learners know.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Yup, back to our Myths concerning Russian language (http://www.livejournal.com/community/learn_russian/219468.html) community memoires post. Should we add this one, too? I guess we should.

[gera.livejournal.com]

I agree.
Probably we should keep compiling them in one place and put a link in User Info.

[oryx_and_crake]

Can you add something about babUshkas?
I recently came across a book about "a Russian girl" who "liked to dance throwing her babushka into the air".

[apollotiger.livejournal.com]

I believe that (in a rare point for them), the X-Men comic books have the character Colossus calling people Tovarisch rather than Comrade. Of course.

XD

[nexistant.livejournal.com]

One of my friends once said me that english language speakers trying to say "Товарищ" very often says "Тварищ" (from "Тварь" - smth like a "creature").
By the way, word "товарищ" is obsolete too. When somebody uses it everybody knows, that he is joking. It's because of 70 years of socialism here...

Р.$. Sorry for mistakes, English is not my native language.

Re: XD

[taschenrechner.livejournal.com]

So Tovarisch is obsolete? I was just about to ask if it has any other sort of slang meaning nowadays. I know here in China, the Chinese word for "Comrade", "tongzhi" nowadays is a slang term for "homosexual".

Almost off-topic

[oryx_and_crake]

(it's actually Ukrainian, but funny anyway, but I thought it might be useful for understanding the cultural context)

У магазин заходить чоловік та й питає:
- Товарищ, у вас єсть лєзвия для брітви?
- Ні, нема.
Покупець пішов, касирка здивовано запитує продавця:
- А чому ти йому сказав, що нема? Вони ж ось.
- Він мене "товаріщєм" обізвав. Нехай серпом голиться, падлюка!

(A man comes into a shop and asks the shop assistant
- Comrade, ghave you got any razor blades?
- We don't have any, - says the assistant.
The man goes away disappointed, and the cashier lady asks:
- Why did you tell him we did not have any razors? We have plenty available.
- He called me a comrade! He may go and shave himself with a sickle.)

Re: XD

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

It could be obsolete if a teenager would use it, addressing to his/her mates. When 70+ retired people would use it, it'd be still OK, that's the way they used to call each other for their whole lives, after all.