two completely unrelated questions

[lexabear.livejournal.com]

Are there phrases in Russian that people use all the time that are technically incorrect, but sound much more natural? I was thinking of the common English phrase "Me and Bob went somewhere," where "me and Bob" is technically incorrect, but what (most) people say casually anyway. In this case, saying it the correct way ("Bob and I") can sound stilted. Are there examples of this sort of thing in Russian?

In a completely unrelated, and much weirder, question -- has anyone read the Russian version of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series? I was thinking about the section where it talks about time travel and verb tense, and was wondering how that was translated.

Comments

[padruka1988.livejournal.com]

I'd say it's incorrect! Будешь чай? Will you tea or even will you be tea? No, I most certainly won't be tea, but I would like to have some tea. :)

[oryx_and_crake]

This is no proof at all. Word-to-word translation never works. Most Russian phrases will turn into bad English or sheer nonsense if you just substitute every Russian word with an English one.

[padruka1988.livejournal.com]

...of course. Most phrases in ANY language will turn into bad language, and most English phrases will turn into weird sentences in other languages. That's not the point at all here.

Будешь чай? It LITERALLY means "Will you tea?" or "Will you be tea?", but nobody understands it as that.... everyone (well, those who speak Russian and know what's going on) knows that it means "Won't you drink tea?"

Therefore, the phrase IN AND OF ITSELF is incorrect... But when it is said around other people, it is correct because it's just understood that way.

[oryx_and_crake]

It LITERALLY means "Will you tea?"

No it does not. And you make the same error of literal translation.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

In Russian, like in many other languages, some words and/or expressions do have both literal meaning and figurative meaning. Some of them are widely used only in their figurative meaning, and no one (being sane :)) would point that their literal meaning is a logical nonsense. For example, nobody would laugh when hearing that "часы идут", pointing that, ha-ha-ha, a watch cannot walk! No, this expression uses the figurative meaning of идти, "to go". This is almost exactly the same case: "будешь чай" is grammatically correct, because it uses the figurative [though very colloquial] meaning of the future tense of the verb быть -- this meaning (still being very colloquial) incorporates the omitted "to consume," i.e. "will you something" means here "will you consume something." Yes, this is not the direct, literal meaning, but still a 100 per cent legal, grammatically correct secondary, or figurative, meaning (though the one that's used only in colloquial speech.)

[solito.livejournal.com]

You are not right, it is just an omission: "Будешь [пить] чай?". There is a lot of phrases with ellipsis in every language.

[padruka1988.livejournal.com]

I realize this, but someone wanted to argue whether this is "incorrect" or not... and technically, this IS incorrect... It's not even a matter of omitting a word... But when speaking with other people, it's not incorrect... It's just a way of asking someone if they want to drink tea.

Like the original post said, "me and Bob" - that is incorrect. But people use it all the time, and generally speaking, it IS correct. That is what the original post was all about - are there any "incorrect" phrases that are so common, that they've become "correct".

[solito.livejournal.com]

Again, I disagree that it is incorrect. It's a correct form of omission, which gives it a colloquial flavor, but it is correct!

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

seconded! (http://www.livejournal.com/community/learn_russian/256511.html?thread=3466495#t3466495)