Question..

[samoria.livejournal.com]

How would you say Samoria in Russian? It's pronounced Sam-or-ee-uh...

I was thinking is was CAMЙPИЯ... is this right?

Comments

[yay4pikas.livejournal.com]

I don't know for certain, but if it's 'or', I'm a little confused as to why you chose й instead of о. I would probably write it as Самория, but I'm pretty much guessing in the dark.

[samoria.livejournal.com]

I chose that because of pronuncation..? isn't й like the 'o' in 'boy'? and the 'o' like the 'oo' in 'boot'? It's like the English word "Or'... so 'boy' woiuld sound more like 'or' to me thatn 'boot' would. Or am I confused? :)

[kniazhna.livejournal.com]

й is like a "y" in "boy", and o is like "o" in the same word. The "oo" in "boot" is an y. You are confused :)

It's Самория =)

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

- й is a consonant, close to the English "y" in "yell".
- о sounds closest to the "o" in "go". The English "oo" sound is the Russian у. In Russian, these are nice and rounded.

You would probably spell your name Самория, but the о would be rather schwa-like if it isn't stressed.

[kniazhna.livejournal.com]

Й is not a so often confused consonant :)

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

Are you trying to say that й isn't a consonant?

It very clearly is; the [j] sound is a glide. It's non-syllabic, at least in Russian (there may be a language elsewhere in which it is syllabic, but I can't think of one).

If I've misunderstood you, I apologize.

[kniazhna.livejournal.com]

Yes, this is exactly what I'm trying to say. Й is an и краткое ("short и" in translation; yes, it does correspond to a [j] sound, which is also a non-syllabic и - a vowel in its root), a letter which is neither a consonant nor a vowel and stands alone by itself along with soft and hard signs (http://encycl.yandex.ru/cgi-bin/art.pl?art=io/io/19000/13178.htm&encpage=io&mrkp=/yandbtm7%3Fq%3D-1784182801%26p%3D0%26g%3D3%26d%3D0%26ag%3Denc_abc%26tg%3D1%26p0%3D0%26q0%3D856233717%26d0%3D2%26script%3D/yandpage%253F).

[yers.livejournal.com]

буква “й” передаёт “и неслоговое” или j; “ъ” и “ь” не обозначают отдельных звуков.
So where does it say that it's neither a consonant nor a vowel?

[kniazhna.livejournal.com]

Have you ever gone to a grammar school in Russia? If you did, then you should have seen an alphabet chart split in vowels (red) and consonants (blue) up above the blackboard. Nowhere in those color-coded charts was an й. It was in the white one - with the other two letters. The link doesn't say anything about that, but it's a given - taught in school. And like it's that hard to figure out that an и краткое (gosh, an и at the root of this letter is a vowel, no matter how short it is) is not an actual consonant in some cases. It's neither, or - both depending on the case, just like a "y" in English (and version of alphabet description).

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

Regardless of й's relation to и and ь, it's still a consonant, although an unusual one. I'm struggling to come up with an example of where й doesn't behave like a consonant and I'm failing.

I just checked the two Russian linguistic texts I have on hand (Russian: A Linguistic Introduction by Cubberly, and Levin's Russian Declension and Conjugation) to make sure I'm not smoking something, and both treat й as a consonant.

Perhaps this whole discussion is just evidence of a split between linguistic perception and the perception of native speakers ... ?

yeah

[yers.livejournal.com]

Наконец, к варьированию по способу образования следует отнести мену [j]//[й] в различных позициях. Сильный напряжённый фрикативный среднеязычный согласный [j] произносится в позиции перед ударными гласными: "яблоко" [jáблъкъ], "юбка"[jýпкъ], "ель" [jел'], "моя" [маjá]. Во всех остальных позициях произносится сонорный согласный [й], фонетические особенности которого заключаются в том, что он является слабым и менее напряжённым: "трамвай" [трамвáй], "зайка" [зáйкъ], "явление" [йивл'éн'ийь], "юмористический" [йумър'ис'т'úч'ьск'ий]. Согласный [й] артикулируется при более широкой щели и с более слабой воздушной струёй, чем согласный [j].
http://www.philol.msu.ru/rus/lena-1/conson/mesto2.html

[kniazhna.livejournal.com]

Perhaps so ;) At least, it's been an ongoing matter of dispute for a long time now :)

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

From your comment to yers, it appears like this is just something taught in grammar school?

Since й sometimes behaves strangely, it makes sense to separate it from the other consonants when teaching basic grammar, but linguistically, I see no evidence of a debate about its consonantal status.

[yay4pikas.livejournal.com]

Er, no. у is like the 'oo' in bot, and о is more like the 'o' in 'or' (or 'a', unstressed). й is usually romanized as 'j', and it's more of a 'y' sound -- Andrej, Nikolaj, and so on.

I'm not a native speaker or remotely fluent, but й is definitely not an 'o' sound.

[kyty3ob.livejournal.com]

Correct spelling should be САМОРИЯ. "Й" is not necessary.
"Й" is used mostly for "Y": e.g. Arroyo - Арройо. Kebaya - кебайя