question about the gentitive case...

[costumier.livejournal.com]

hello to all.

I'm trying to learn the genitive case, and I was wondering how one would write "______ of (foreign name here)." I'm very new to all this, so bear with me...
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**FEMININE Names:
Russian: of Юля = Юли? or Юляи?

Foreign: of Кайли(Kylie) = Кайли-?

**MASCULINE Names:
Russian: of Борис = Борися?
-->"Саша" is a masculine name; and the genitive endings for masculine nouns are "-a" and "-я"; yet "of Саша" is written "Саши", right? Why?

Foreign: of Роберт(Robert) = Роберт-?
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Upfront apology for any mistakes...

THANKS FOR ANY HELP! :-)

Comments

[costumier.livejournal.com]

WAIT: just found out that Саша is for both guys and girls...does that affect anything?

[oblomov-jerusal.livejournal.com]

Юля - Юли, Кайли - Кайли, Борис - Бориса, Роберт - Роберта. Саша, like other masculine nouns ending in a or я, belongs to 1st declension, and conjugates accordingly.

[katenok.livejournal.com]

Юли, Кайли, Бориса, Саши, Роберта

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

Regarding Саша:

You'll come across this a lot in Russian diminutive names. As you probably know, -а/я is the feminine nominative ending for nouns. When you come across a word (or name) that appears feminine but is actually masculine, you decline it as if it was feminine. However, you pair it with masculine modifiers - you don't say моя папа, you say мой папа.

If you did come across a girl with the name Саша (for whatever reason - I've never heard of it), you would use feminine modifiers.

Good luck with the genitive plural. :)

[oblomov-jerusal.livejournal.com]

Feminine Саша is a diminutive for Александра. It is not as frequent name as masculine Александр/Саша, but it is not unusual.

[costumier.livejournal.com]

thanks...i have a feeling i'm gonna need it. ;-)

[kasak.livejournal.com]

The Genitive case (родительный падеж) of foreign names is declined in the same way as Russian nouns, with a few exceptions...

The Genitive singular of Юля is Юли, because the я is a soft vowel, so it changes into и, another soft vowel. If the name was, say, Ирина, then the Genitive singular would be Ирины, since a was a hard vowel.

The correct declension of Борис would be Бориса, since with Masculine nouns, all you do is slap a a or a я on the end, depending on the softness of the original Nominative (именительный падеж) ending.

Роберт -> Робертa

In the case of Саша, it is declined as if it were a feminine noun, BUT you would use masculine adjectives and verb forms when talking about him if Саша is a male. If Саша is a female, just make everything feminine.

Foreign women's names sometimes don't decline very easily in Russian. If the name ends in a a or a я, then it is declined normally. However, if it ends in a consonant or the vowels е, о, и, у, then it is INDECLINIBLE. Take the common name of Kim, for instance. Though it is a woman's name, it is INDECLINABLE. So "Kim's house" or "house of Kim" would be дом Ким. The name Кайли would fall under this category as well. "Kylie's book" would be книга Кайли.

If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask!

[costumier.livejournal.com]

EXCELLENT explanation! much appreciated. thank you for such a coherent explanation of foreign names!! :-)

[nicolya.livejournal.com]

Though nobody knows how to decline correctly such foreign names as Клаудиа. Клаудии? Клаудиы? That's quite a problem:-))

[moon-aka-sun.livejournal.com]

Клаудии. No problem at all.

[nicolya.livejournal.com]

Nevertheless, "Клаудии" - this is from Клаудия, not Клаудиа:-) In fact, in Russian there's no rules for declining such names.

Female last names

[welgar.livejournal.com]

AFAIK foreign female last names are normally all indeclinable. E.g.: Даниэла Джонсон - у Даниэлы Джонсон - о Даниэле Джонсон etc. If it were Дэн (male), we would decline it: у Дэна Джонсона - о Дэне Джонсоне.

The same goes even if the last name sounds feminine, e.g.: Ирина Хакамада - у Ирины Хакамада - об Ирине Хакамада. However, many Russians don't know this and decline the names like nouns (Хакамады - Хакамаде etc.).

Re: Female last names

[ekeme-ndiba.livejournal.com]

Bah. Please don't invent unexisting rules, there's no such a rule that prevents declining foreign feminine names (last, first, whatever) by default. You shouldn't decline them only if they cannot be declined - e.g. the final letter is a consonant or an "irregural" vowel, such as "u" etc. Thus, Hakamada must be declined, as far as it meets all requirements for the 1st declension. By the way, I've never met anyone who doesn't decline "Hakamada". Nevertheless, there are many people who think that Slavic toponyms ending with "o" shouldn't be declined (and, yes, they think that there's a rule for it). But, again, it's quite wrong.

Just samples, no rules from me

[moon-aka-sun.livejournal.com]

F:

Юля - Юли
Оля - Оли
Маша - Маши
Саша - Саши
Женя - Жени
Наташа - Наташи
Анна - Анны
Алла - Аллы
Рита - Риты
Ира - Иры

Кайли - Кайли
Мэри - Мэри
Бриджитт - Бриджитт
Милен - Милен
Девон - Девон
Пенелоппа - Пенелоппы
Селена - Селены
Мадлен - Мелден
Кондолеза - Кондолезы

И т.д.

M:

Саша - Саши
Женя - Жени
Борис - Бориса
Стас - Стаса
Олег - Олега
Николай - Николая
Андрей - Андрея
Петя - Пети
Вася - Васи

Стив - Стива
Роберт - Роберта
Майкл - Майкла
Данни - Данни
Ларри - Ларри

Pretty Simple :)

Re: Just samples, no rules from me

[costumier.livejournal.com]

appreciated all the same. (i've already printed them out ():-] )

Re: Just samples, no rules from me

[gornev.livejournal.com]

> Мадлен - Мелден

You'll need to prove this one. ;-)

Re: Just samples, no rules from me

[slotos.livejournal.com]

Мадлен - Мадлен.

misprint

Re: Just samples, no rules from me

[moon-aka-sun.livejournal.com]

Yeah, a big oops :) Hava a bonus then: Каролина - Каролины

very grateful

[costumier.livejournal.com]

thanks everyone for all your help!

:0)

[foox.livejournal.com]

Юля - к Юле - для Юли - обе Юли - для обЕих Юль =0)
Оля - к Оле - для Оли - обе Оли - для обеих Оль
Роза - к Розе - для Розы - обе Розы - для обеих Роз =0)
Евгения - к Евгении - для Евгении - обе Евгении - для обеих Евгений
Екатерина - к Екатерине - для Екатерины - обе Екатерины - для обеих Екатерин

Саша - к Саше - для Саши - обе Саши - для обоИх Саш
Наташа - к Наташе - для НаташИ (жи / ши - И > не Ы!) - обе Наташи - для обеих Наташ

Да, я в английском не силен, посему говорите понятней и проще если чего подсказать. =0)

Re: :0)

[costumier.livejournal.com]

спасибо all the same :-)