на vs в

[cle-fable.livejournal.com]

I'm going over the locative case to be in or at a place.  As a general rule на denotes open spaces and в denotes enclosed spaces. 

You would think then that it should be на парке but I think actually it's в парке.  Why is that?

Also is it в or на кино?

Comments

[ata-k.livejournal.com]

The Russian (or European?) idea of park is of an enclosed space (as opposed to the virtually bald American parks, for example). "В кино" (enclosed space, i.e. the movie theater); "вы ходили на этот фильм?" (did you see this movie?)

[oryx_and_crake]

I don't think that в is related to an idea of enclosed spaces. For example, в поле, в пустыне, в лесу, в Антарктике - neither of these are very "enclosed".

[khathi.livejournal.com]

I see it not as a distinction between open/closed spaces, but more like defined/generalized space. But, anyway, as it commonly is in Russian, it's all wery arbitrary and inconsistent, so it's better just to memorize.

[ata-k.livejournal.com]

You're right. The desert and the Antarctic, etc., kind of slipped out of my mind.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

It's в парке, because a park is, theoretically, inclosed in its boundaries with a fence or a wall; I cannot think of a better explanation :) Speaking seriously, it probably inherits the pattern from в лесу, в поле etc. Note that в реке means "in the water of a river," while на реке means "at a river" (either on its surface, like in на реке видно много лодок "we can see many boats in the river", or on the riverside, like in я провёл два часа на реке, загорал и плавал "I spend two hours at the river taking sunbaths and swimming.")

It's в кино (either "in the movies" - такую погоню можно увидеть только в кино, "such a chase can be seen only in the movies" - or "at a cinema theatre").

[pinky-the-cow.livejournal.com]

It's a really strange "general rule", if you ask me, hmm. I've never thought of it this way.
After all, the correct expressions are "в открытом космосе" and "на подземной автостоянке" (in outer space and in underground parking respectively).

I think it's actually has to do more with the patterns of suggested interrelations between objects, rather than openness/closedness of the locations.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Yes, just like many other "general rules" in Russian, this one is quite not too general. You still have to memorize a good deal.

[david-us.livejournal.com]

Would this sentence be correct, then?

Игроки уже на поле.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Absolutely; moreover, the opposite (игроки уже в поле) would be completely incorrect. But if we'd be speaking about workers in the field, both "работники уже в поле" and "работники уже на поле" would be more or less OK -- but only to a point: the first version would generally mean that they have already left homes for work, while the second would mean that they have already entered _this exact_ field, not just any field.

[hyyudu.livejournal.com]

В always means certain place: в доме, в школе, в парке, в гостях, в саду.
На can mean either certain event or some similar: на экзамене, на спектакле, на футбольном матче, на концерте, or place (на стадионе, на поле, на ринге, на арене, на танцплощадке, на сцене), being on board (на теплоходе, на яхте)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

>на поле

You can be both на поле and в поле, can't you?

[romik-g.livejournal.com]

usually в поле
4,710,000 results in Google for "в поле" (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22%D0%B2+%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%22)
2,900,000 results in Google for "на поле" (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22%D0%BD%D0%B0+%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%22)

"на поле" is used in sports, ex. soccer/football, and in expressions like "на поле сражений", "на поле битвы", "игрок вышел на поле" (football).

"на" here means "on the", or "on the surface" (field, parking place, metro/bus/train station, ground,..).

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

That's what I'm saying.

[hyyudu.livejournal.com]

Right you are, but I can't explain the differences. На поле can be said about a man walking on a field (я пошел погулять на поле), or a football player (этот нападающий сейчас на поле). В поле I've heard only when it's told about an staff working outside the office (работник в поле)

[pinky-the-cow.livejournal.com]

"Один в поле не воин"? :)

[dog-is-evol.livejournal.com]

в поле зрения
в поле цветы зацвели

[lisamona11.livejournal.com]

я пошел погулять на поле - sounds awkward. Гулять в поле\ в лесу\в парке - are correct. Definitely - в кино. It often depends on the meaning of action. True, there are some rules, but memorizing too.

[seraphoet.livejournal.com]

Allways "в" - в парке, в кино. В = in the

[alexzzzzz.livejournal.com]

I would say
в ~ in, at
на ~ on, at

[alexzzzzz.livejournal.com]

в школе = at school
на концерте = at the concert

[windy-corner.livejournal.com]

Still, the idea of a 'platform' is related to НА, while the idea of a 'cave'is linked with В. Eg., садиться на автобус, but в машину. As for поле, I believe it might be linked to history of land-farming in Russia, as a field used to be a plot of land emptied from wood and surrounded by the forest. It seems that НА поле is something that came to existance later, when a field could be interpreted as a platform. Old Russian songs all go В поле, Во поле.

There's a similar thing with почта, where we have НА historically, as a post station used to be a big place with stables and several buildings. One would chnage horses there to travel 'by post'.

Also, as it's been stated, we have В for buildings and НА for events that take place there. В театре на спектакле, в университете на лекции, etc.

[alexzzzzz.livejournal.com]

Ехать в автобусе, ехать в машине = to go being inside of a bus/car
Ехать на автобусе, ехать на машине = to go by a bus/car

Сесть в автобус, сесть в машину = to get in (inside of) a bus/car
Сесть на автобус = to get in a bus/to take bus
Сесть на машину = to sit on a car (for example, on its roof)
Сесть на попутную машину = to take passing car

[alexzzzzz.livejournal.com]

> You would think then that it should be на парке but I think actually it's в парке. Why is that?

Open space, closed space, inside something, on a surface of something - all these things are pretty useless. Different languages have different views on that stuff:
Я сидел на дереве. = I was sitting in a tree.

I think rules are useless here: there are too many rules and even more exceptions to them.

Well....

[6-02x10e23.livejournal.com]

It's just another one of the zillions of maddening things about this unimaginably crazy and hopelessly complicated language! Sometimes I wonder what's the point of having "rules" when there seem to be as many exceptions as not. Daily I am amazed by the sheer insanity of it all:)