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I found an interesting informal expression in Russian while doing my homework. It's
катиться в тартарары
from this context:
"Вся финансовая система Америки... катится в тартарары и увлекает за собой благополучную Европу и динамичную Азию."
"The entire American financial system... is going to hell in a handbasket, and dragging stable Europe and dynamic Asia behind it."
(For non-native speakers: Everything is going to hell in a handbasket! is an English expression meaning that a situation is becoming very bad. It has a kind of humorous tone.)
However, the dictionary definition (which gives the verb not as катиться, but провалиться) doesn't match this exactly. It says that this phrase is used not to describe a bad situation, but in a situation where you want someone to (metaphorically) get as far away as possible. So maybe something like "hey, go to hell!" (Тартарары comes from Tartarus, the underworld in Greek mythology.)
Do any native speakers have comments? Is this expression at all common? Is my translation right? I'd also like to know where the stress is on тартарары. Thank you!
катиться в тартарары
from this context:
"Вся финансовая система Америки... катится в тартарары и увлекает за собой благополучную Европу и динамичную Азию."
"The entire American financial system... is going to hell in a handbasket, and dragging stable Europe and dynamic Asia behind it."
(For non-native speakers: Everything is going to hell in a handbasket! is an English expression meaning that a situation is becoming very bad. It has a kind of humorous tone.)
However, the dictionary definition (which gives the verb not as катиться, but провалиться) doesn't match this exactly. It says that this phrase is used not to describe a bad situation, but in a situation where you want someone to (metaphorically) get as far away as possible. So maybe something like "hey, go to hell!" (Тартарары comes from Tartarus, the underworld in Greek mythology.)
Do any native speakers have comments? Is this expression at all common? Is my translation right? I'd also like to know where the stress is on тартарары. Thank you!
no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 12:13 am (UTC)I used to hear the expression “катиться в тартарары”, although it is rarely used nowadays. Your translation is correct.
“Ы” is stressed, and the secondary stress, er, falls upon the first “а”.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 12:14 am (UTC)I quite like your translation. I think it is stylistically correct. What dictionary did you consult? I do not see any problems with using that expression the way you did in an informal context.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 12:38 am (UTC)though its rarely used tbh
no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 01:00 am (UTC)Honestly, those little things you don't find in textbooks, you have to learn them from daily life of native speakers, and the speakers around me use very academic English. My last little treasure was "Where is my pen?.. It put legs and disappeared" (did I say it right? there was no possibility to write it down right there and then). It was a long-wanted translation of Russian "Где моя ручка? Кто-то ей ноги приделал".
I wish there would be an organized way of learning those in both languages.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-05 05:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-05 05:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 01:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 07:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 08:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 09:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 10:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 10:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 12:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 12:51 pm (UTC)BTW the rare, but still existent, modern Russian "тартар" can be both the influence from CS's тартаръ, and the direct infruence from Greek -- as Greek mythology has been widely studied in Russia in 19th and 20th century, and many people know Greek myths, at least from Nikolai Kun's "Мифы древней Греции" that was printed in a few million copies in Soviet time alone.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 01:52 pm (UTC)One could also advance an argument that saying "normal Russian" contrasts with Church Slavonic in the same way that in medieval Europe we talked of "the vernacular" to contrast it with Church Latin, even though the languages being called "the vernacular" were totally different from Latin. That is, not a contrast between a "normal" and a perverted, outdated, or irregular form of one language, but a contrast between a language used by the people to communicate vs. a language used in a particular, limited sphere of public life (e.g. the church, academia). In that way, the sense given by "normal Russian" is appropriate even if the word choice is not the best possible one.
I wasn't going to advance that argument, but I guess I just did. Oops.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 02:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 08:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 09:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 06:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 08:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 12:30 pm (UTC)So it could be that "катиться в тартарары" is its logical amplification.
We also say, "Докатились." Meaning that we are now living worse than we used to (because there was not much effort involved to rectify the situation.)
And I agree with others that your expression is not used overly much today but neither is it really rare.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 12:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 01:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 03:16 pm (UTC)