Translation help

[cle-fable.livejournal.com]

Hi guys,

I wonder if you could help me with a translation of a newspaper article.  It contains some phrases which I'm not familiar with.  And if you notice anything I haven't picked up on I'd be greatful too.

Прощание с капитализмом

Семен НОВОПРУДСКИЙ

Вот и кончился второй русский капитализм.

Парадокс: "капитализмы" в России живут как люди - у них есть точные даты рождения и смерти. Первый русский капитализм родился 19 февраля 1861 года, когда император Александр Второй отменил крепостное право, и умер 25 октября (7 ноября по новому стилю), когда в России совершился большевистский переворот. Второй русский капитализм родился 2 января 1992 года, когда в России наконец отпустили на свободу цены, и умер 25 октября 2003 года, когда власть арестовала самого богатого человека страны и главу самой прозрачной российской компании Михаила Ходорковского.

Break with Capitalism

 

Thus ends the second period of capitalism

 

In Russia, capitalist periods, like people, have precise dates of birth and death.  The first capitalist epoch came into being on 19 February 1961 when Tsar Alexander II abolished serfdom and ended on 25 October (7 November according to the Western calendar) with the Bolshevik Revolution.  The second capitalist epoch began in 1992 when Russia finally returned to a market economy and ended when state authorities arrested the country’s richest man – head of the most transparent corporation in Russia – Mikhail Khodorkovsky.

24 октября главная экономическая газета планеты "Файнэншл таймс" опубликовала любопытную статью. Оказывается, одна из крупнейших российских финансово-промышленных империй - "Альфа-Групп" - за 500 тысяч долларов наняла международную фирму "Кролл". Чтобы та исследовала всю историю бизнеса "Альфы" на предмет возможного компромата - вплоть до торговли наркотиками и оружием. По мнению газеты, эту меру "Альфа" предприняла для очистки своей репутации перед западным бизнесом. Увы, для "внутреннего пользования" такая очистка, похоже, нужна гораздо больше.

The leading business newspaper in the world, The Financial Times, published an puzzling article: one of the largest Russian financial-industrial conglomerates, Alfa Group Consortium[YUN1] , had hired the international risk consulting company Kroll for US$500,000 to investigate the whole of the consortium’s business history for any possible compromising material, right down to trafficking in drugs and arms.  According to the newspaper, this was a measure taken by Alfa Group to clear its reputation in the eyes of western business.  Alas, much more cleansing of this type seems to be needed for internal use.

I don't know if I've expressed this right.  I don't know if it's saying that it would be good for the companies to investigate themselves or whether its saying that the state should investigate companies before bringing actions against them.  So does внутренний refer to companies or the state here?

В России не происходит процесс пересмотра итогов приватизации. Это было бы еще полбеды. Все больше симптомов того, что мы имеем дело с банальной экспроприацией.

Когда госпожа, точнее, товарищ Вишнякова из Генеральной прокуратуры, путая названия валют, рассказывает нам о том, какой страшный вор и мошенник г-н Ходорковский (что еще надо доказать в суде), становится понятен дальнейший ход событий. Он описывается формулой "грабь награбленное".

Если даже предположить, что прокуратура права и г-н Ходорковский действительно нанес России ущерб на 1 миллиард долларов, он ведь и заработал для страны в десятки раз больше. Более того, своими словами и действиями в отношении компании "ЮКОС" российские силовые структуры уже нанесли и еще нанесут России ущерб, в те же десятки раз больший, чем этот пресловутый миллиард долларов.

The process underway in Russia is not a review of privatisation – that would not be so very serious a problem.  There is much more evidence to suggest that what we have on our hands is a case of banal expropriation.

 

When Ms Vishnyakova, or rather, comrade Vishnyakova from the Prosecutor General’s Office tells us what a thief and a crook Khodorkovsky is (which has still to be proved by a court of law), what the future course of events will be becomes clear: it can be described by the old formula ‘to take back what has been stolen.’

 

Even if we take the position of the Prosecutor General’s Office that Khodorkhovsky did plunder the Russian state to the sum of a billion dollars, he put fifty times that back into the country.  Moreover, the statements and actions on the part of the law-enforcement authorities with regard to the Yukos company have inflicted much greater damage on the country than the those oft-mentioned billion dollars – perhaps even fifty times greater.

Но самое страшное - не раскол общества , о котором говорил глава РАО "ЕЭС" Анатолий Чубайс ("совок" никуда не делся за десять лет реформ, и три четверти населения с радостью поддержат любые аресты богатых), и даже не перераспределение собственности. Самое страшное - в том, кто будет распоряжаться этой собственностью.

Силовые структуры, устроившие атаку на "ЮКОС", не создадут новых рабочих мест и не отопят замерзающие города. Когда с таким трудом выстроенная на руинах советской империи (между прочим, распавшейся прежде всего по экономическим причинам) экономика начнет разваливаться, власть вновь будет искать "врагов народа", "вредителей", "оборотней на производстве". Вот тогда арестовывать по давней российской традиции начнут уже людей из того самого молчаливого большинства, которому так нравятся нынешние уголовные преследования богатых.

 

But the biggest danger is not the rupturing of society of which head of RAO United Energy System of Russia Anatoly Chubais speaks (the ‘Soviet’ Chubais has not taken reform in any meaningful direction in the last ten years, and three quarters of Russians would welcome and support the arrest of any oligarch) or even the redistribution of assets.  The danger lies in who will be in charge of such redistribution.[YUN1] 

  совок - does that mean someone with a Soviet upbringing and mentality in this case?

The security and law enforcement agencies, which orchestrated the attack on Yukos, will neither create new jobs nor heat towns in mid-winter.  When the economy which took such pains to build up out of the ruins of the Soviet empire begins to crumble the state will once again search for ‘enemies of the people,’ ‘sabateurs’and ?  Then, in keeping with age-old Russian tradition, members of the silent majority now so appreciative of the prosecution of the wealthy will in turn be arrested.

I'm afraid I couldn't think of a translation for оборотень в производстве - is it some kind of industrial sabateur?  It sounds like a Soviet phrase.  What other translations does it have besides werewolf?

 Не надо питать иллюзий. Если нынешний вектор развития России кардинально не изменится, мы не удвоим ВВП ни за десять, ни за двадцать лет. Мы не интегрируемся в мировое сообщество. Мы не победим бедность. Мы быстро, очень быстро скатимся к тому состоянию экономики, которое уничтожило Советский Союз.

Есть ли альтернатива капитализму, либеральной рыночной экономике? Есть. Ее придумал вскоре после конца первого русского капитализма Лев Троцкий. Это трудовые армии, в которых миллионы людей работают не за деньги, а за сохранение права на жизнь. Это когда половина населения страны - заключенные, а вторая половина - конвой. Эффективность нулевая, даже отрицательная, зато нет безработицы. Хотят ли такой альтернативы люди, взрывающие своими действиями экономику страны в момент, когда у нас только-только начался устойчивый рост? Надеюсь, что нет.

There is no need to harbour any illusions.  If the present development trajectory is not drastically altered, we will not double GDP in ten or even twenty years time.  We are not being integrated into the international community.[YUN1]   We will not banish poverty.  The economy will deteriorate to the same condition that spelt the downfall of the Soviet Union.

 

Is there an alternative to capitalism – to liberal market economics?  One alternative was developed by Lev Trotsky immediately after the first capitalist period.  It consisted of an army of the toiling masses, in which millions of people worked, not for money, but to preserve their right to life; at that time half the population were prisoners and the other half in transit.  By all measures of productivity and efficiency it was useless, even detrimental, yet there was no unemployement.  Do those whose actions are tearing down the economy just at the juncture when, slowly and tentatively, we have begun to establish stable growth?  I hope not.

конвой was hard to translate because in English a convoy is like a form of protection while travelling but I thought it referred to prisoners being transported to labour camps here, is this right?

Впервые с начала рыночных реформ в России нависла угроза над самим экономическим курсом. Мы уже успели отвыкнуть от дефицита товаров, продовольственных пайков по праздникам на производстве и распределения еды по карточкам. Мы уже успели привыкнуть к свободному обмену валюты. Надо понять простую вещь: начав с атаки на одного "неугодного олигарха", можно очень быстро вернуться в состояние очередей за хлебом и всеобщего равенства в нищете. Это взаимосвязанные вещи.

Когда умирает близкий или просто очень важный для тебя человек, всегда остается маленькая надежда, что это неправда, что все это дурной сон. У страны еще есть шанс сохранить капитализм, который - со всеми очевидными издержками - все же дал людям возможность зарабатывать своим трудом приличные деньги и строить планы на жизнь здесь, в России. Настало время политических решений, ибо "равноудаленность" власти и бизнеса зашла слишком далеко. В стране, где примерно 50 компаний дают 50 процентов доходов госказны, это действительно смерти подобно.

The food rationing bit was hard as most English readers would think that food rationing and food coupons were the same thing.  I'd be grateful to anyone who could explain the subtleties of the food rationing system - which I think I should express more explicitly in the translation. 

19:51 26.10.03

For the first time since market reform began in Russia, its premise is being challenged.  Enough time has elapsed for us to have grown unaccustomed to shortages of goods, food rationing during industrial holidays and food coupons.  We have had time to get used to the free conversion of currency.  One simple point needs to be understood: having launched an attack on one ‘troublesome oligarch,’ we may very soon see a return to food lines and universal equality of poverty.  They two are mutually reinforcing.

 

When a relative or someone very close to you dies there always remains that shred of hope that will be awakened from the nightmare.  There is still a chance in this country to save capitalism, which for all its associated costs, has nevertheless given people the opportunity to earn proper money for their work and build a life for themselves here in Russia.  The time has come for politicians to act as the principle of ‘equal distance’ has been taken too far.  In a country where approximately 50 companies give 50 per cent of their income to the State Treasury it truly represents the death of the economy.

Thanks for your help.  Also sorry for the bold all the way through, it got stuck on it for some reason.

 

 [YUN1]World community pertains to peace wikipedia

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 [YUN1]Take charge means bring the situation in hand.

 

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 [YUN1]Don’t confuse with Alpha Group!

Comments

[konstkaras.livejournal.com]

I don't know if it's saying that it would be good for the companies to investigate themselves or whether its saying that the state should investigate companies before bringing actions against them.
Of course, first is right. Criminal pursuit implicitly needs and investigation (at least imitation of it) to be legal, so author means independent audit.

совок - does that mean someone with a Soviet upbringing and mentality in this case?

Right.

конвой was hard to translate because in English a convoy is like a form of protection while travelling but I thought it referred to prisoners being transported to labour camps here, is this right?

Конвой here means any troops of prison guards (guarding not only travelling, but also already settled prisoners).

, продовольственных пайков по праздникам на производстве

These words refer not to food rationing, but to some kind of bonuses for workers given not in money but in food.

(aside: what a funky liberal brainwashing!)

[xacah-tdi.livejournal.com]

(aside: what a funky liberal brainwashing!)

:agree:

[konstkaras.livejournal.com]

совок - does that mean someone with a Soviet upbringing and mentality in this case?

More precisely, it means not just someone, but a widespread mentality in Russian people, that is, treatment of rich ones.

[konstkaras.livejournal.com]

Unfortunatley, the shit is written here, they just translate (for some reasons)

[oryx_and_crake]

"грабь награбленное" is not "take back what has been stolen". It's not an innocent "take back", it's "rob the robbers". It is a famous quotation from Lenin that refers to forceful expropriation of goods from the capitalists during a revolution. The meaning is that the capitalists got their riches by robbing the poor people in the first place, so now the proletariat has a right to rob them (and more: imprison, kill etc.) to get back the loot by force.

[pinky-the-cow.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's my mistake on the origins (below). Never was a fan of Lenin, heh.

[pinky-the-cow.livejournal.com]

Heh, a large piece of work you got there. Hopefully, you're ready for blunt criticism, as I'm not a person trained to be a sweet-talker or something.

There seems to be lots of different depth frivolity throughout the translation. As if you're not trying to convey all the sense peculiarities, but rather prefer reworking some things pursuing beauty ("of-your-own-ideals" one) or disguise of the parts unclear to you.
Perhaps, some linguist would say it to be a personal style aspect. I would probably go after the sense with more fervor, anyways.
I prefer to take it so that you are almost retelling rather than doing a close translation. The very first sentence is an example. Where have the "парадокс" word gone? And a bit further "2 января 1992 года" gets cut to simple 1992. If that wasn't on purpose, if it was a mistake due to lack of concentration, I'd suggest you revise your work quite a few times more, since picking all of such stuff would take twice your post.

Hence, I'm pointing out just the factual mistakes that lead you to think in the wrong direction.

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I think that in this case usage of "according to" as an english for "по мнению" may trigger an escalating shift in meanings. If a newspaper provides someone's opinion, or expresses its own opinion — that is one thing. If a newspapers claims something to be an absolutely truthful description, a fact — that is another thing. Russian text states that it cites an opinion of a newspaper. English translation may confuse, it may seem that it cites a fact picked from a newspaper.
When "a fact" turns out to be a wrongful accusation, a law-suit is due. That isn't the case for opinions.

As for the cleansing part, regarding your "I don't know if it's saying that it would be good for the companies to investigate themselves or whether its saying that the state should investigate companies before bringing actions against them. So does внутренний refer to companies or the state here?"
"Для внутреннего пользования" is an antonym for association with abroad affairs. The company is said to try to clean itself in the eyes of foreign (western) business. The author reminds that cleaning would be more appropriate to start in the eyes of those within Russia, not abroad. There likely was an implication that everyone in Russia see Al'fa as some bandit company for quite a while.
Anyways, more correct translation is (note where the "much more" goes :)) ~"Alas, it seems, that cleansing of such kind is much more needed within Russia."

And "любопытная статья" is far from "puzzling article". See the dictionaries.

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Russian translation of your english translation: "Происходящий в России процесс это не пересмотр приватизации". Original russian text challenges the fact of a process occurring, not the sort of some occurring process.
~"There isn't a process of privatization review going on in Russia."

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Your E. ~> into R. = "Гораздо больше есть симптомов того, что…"
"Всё больше", "всё сильнее", "всё выше, и выше, и выше" — it marks an increase of something, not prevailing.
Correct is ~"There is an increasing evidence…"

[cle-fable.livejournal.com]

Thanks, I'm very indebted to you for your help. I think there are a number of things that I don't underatnd. If I could go through your some of your points.

1.Paradox: to me this is an apparent contradiction. But I don't see the author as making a contradiction here. If it were a paradox wouldn't it need to say: capitalist periods are like people and then say something else that strongly indicates its difference to people?

2.Thankyou for the cleansing advice and the мнение.

3. В России не происходит процесс пересмотра итогов приватизации. Это было бы еще полбеды. Все больше симптомов того, что мы имеем дело с банальной экспроприацией.

I thought reading this that we were meant to compare these two sentences - what is not happening with what is, so my translation was trying to foreground that comparison.

Incidentally though - the thrust of the rest of the article implies that something quite historically significant is taking place. So why the banal expropriation. I assume the point is that if it were a review or a process it would be more rational where as instead the repercussions are great but the actual actions are - oh I can't think of the word - kind of done without realising their significance or done for selfish reasons not part of a policy of any kind. Is that right?

I ask because if this is right then you're right that I can't say 'the process underway in Russia' because the whole point is that it's not a rational process.

4. I forgot to ask and i've checked dictionaries what does путать названия валют mean in:
Когда госпожа, точнее, товарищ Вишнякова из Генеральной прокуратуры, путая названия валют, рассказывает нам о том, какой страшный вор и мошенник г-н Ходорковский (что еще надо доказать в суде), становится понятен дальнейший ход событий. Он описывается формулой "грабь награбленное".

I've checked dictionaries and I can't get anything other than the literal. Does it refer to вор and мошенник? Both of those seemed to mean thief though the second also implied crook and swindler rather than plain thief. Is it saying she is being sloppy with her description of Khodorkovsky?

Thank you again.

[pinky-the-cow.livejournal.com]

1. Re:Paradox.
Paradox statements are most often in contradiction with common sense, by definition. Therefore, the word referred to the part about russian capitalisms' human-likeness, them having exact dates of birth and death.

3. About "процесс пересмотра итогов приватизации", what is happening and what isn't.

In this part of the text, if I were to relay it in my own words, I'd say that the author is as if determining the nature of the beast before the readers.
He starts by discarding an almost meme-like reprivatization. Why start with it? Well, for people immersed in russian politics, there are reasons like: some communists and other people happen to call for reviewing the privatization from time to time and before elections; also, in Ukraine the idea is constantly in the air near Timoshenko. Of course, some demagoghy is propagated here, either. "No-no-no, it's not reprivatization." Meaning that it was an obvious for you to have made the assertion by the moment.
If not a reprivatization (which would be something tolerable), the what? The author goes on to proclaim that he's afraid of the upcoming menace. He doesn't want to fully believe it, he sees the signs (this uncertainty suggesting the banal expropriation to be really terrifying).
Then, you have to go on along the platform of liberal views. What bad is reprivatization? Well, it's lawlessness, switching rules, hounding the successful, reputation problems — all is bad for market economy. But if it's one time and has at least some justification (crowds of poors go exstatic, when everything bad about their poor state is blamed on privatization and oligarchs rich from it) — it can be half the catastrophe. Not rational, but rather overly blown out of a pretty questionable tiny argument. (Sure, those auctions might have been really strange, but the rest of the YUKOS case absolutely doesn't amount to any justice in classic sense of the word)

The second choice to display in the article (after "reprivatization") is worse, most likely since it displays an unjust action, a robbery of a sort, solely for benefits of those in power. This particular article doesn't seem to pursue and discuss the question of how significant or selfish the case seems to the acting parties. I think, it rather assumes that those people don't care in the least.

4. I forgot to ask and i've checked dictionaries what does путать названия валют mean in:
Когда госпожа, точнее, товарищ Вишнякова из Генеральной прокуратуры, путая названия валют,..


"Путать" here — "to confuse some things with others". "Названия валют" — "currency names". Everything else is outside of the participle construction (деепричастный оборот). The prosecutor tells us how horrible a thief and scam Khodorkovsky is, in the same time she can't get the currencies right.

It is hard to follow everything that happens in politics, especially as it gradually goes more and more to the past, but there was some, erm, thing about the YUKOS case. It was all *censored* badly stitched together, figuratively speaking. And among some announced accusations against Khodorkovsky, one of them said Khodorkovsky to have stolen by means of all tax-optimization schemes etc. *some-sum-or-another* in US Dollars, when it was actually roubles the day before and in writing (thus ~28+ or something times less). She got the currencies mixed, the text refers to the incident.

I can't quite remember, if that was the source of the next thing, or some other accusation, but some sum from the mouths of prosecuting side happened to be outrageous once.
People went and did calculations. The said calculations showed that if the accusation were to be true, then Khodorkovsky had managed to steal absolutely all the oil that has been produced in the period in question.

[pinky-the-cow.livejournal.com]

Regarding the last example, about crazily big sums of money. They might have not make a mistake in currency, too. I can't remember the details well in this case :|

[pinky-the-cow.livejournal.com]

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Pure blunder, honestly. ~"Plunder the plunderers' loot" it is. Where would you get an idea to go soft here? It's old for Russia, it's from the Soviet political dissenters' folklore.

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"Десятки" = "tens", not plain "fifty".
Khodorkovsky in original Russian is claimed to have earned more money for the country. What's that "put in"? Probably means "вкладывать" (~"invest").

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>_<' …
It's "страшное", it's already upon us. It's not a "danger" (опасное), but rather something "horrible".
Chubais "spoke", past tense.
The part in round brackets: "совок" — it's a combined phenomenon of all sorts of degradedness attributed to Soviet Union, its institutions, its inhabitants. It really isn't used as Chubais' characteristic here. The text there goes as such: "'Sovok' hadn't disappeared anywhere during the 10 year of reforms and 3/4 of population will greet any arrests of the rich ones".
The last sentence of the fragment is off. When property is redistributed, it winds up in someone's hands, right? The context ahead should bolster your really-just-a-translation of "собственность" and not substituting the word for something seemingly related out of the blue.



"Оборотень …" originates from a quickly-deemed-to-be-just-for-show operation "Оборотни в погонах". A number of ordinary corrupted policemen has been caught and propaganda went overboard (it was a single episode presented as if it was a greatest decisive triumph over corruption, things are going great), having conjured the neologism in the process.
Then this in turn was adopted by critical persons for mocking purposes, mostly.
"Оборотень на производстве". Perhaps there's no need to translate "оборотень" part at all, in order to convey the neological nature of the word combination in Russian.

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"Ни… , ни…" = "neither… , nor…"

[pinky-the-cow.livejournal.com]

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No comments ~_~

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"The situation is such: half the population are prisoners, and the other half — warders."
That's an another usual (which doesn't mean that it's quite wrong) image of Soviet Union, regarding the GULAG, the repressions.
Each family has a history, you were with the jailers, or your relatives had been repressed and you could happen to become next anytime.

"Зато" in "efficiency it was useless, even detrimental, yet there was no unemployment." is better translated as a sarcastic "(yet) on the other hand".

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Do not despair, oh, poor author! Nobody makes you do those guys… >_<'


"Продовольственные пайки" — I think that it's like bonuses, a reward or a privilege boon of food nature. Coupons were papers that had to be turned in when one purchased (for money) certain amounts of insufficient-to-fully-satisfy-everyone sort of goods from a store. Thus they were strictly limiting overall consumption of those goods for general people. I may be a bit wrong, as I was too young to remember them well.

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y
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"Having launched" and "one" are too indefinite and mess up the author's point.
"… having started with an attack on the certain 'troublesome oligarch'…".
"Reinforcing" is too far, "related" is probably better.

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No comments once again ~_~


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Your E.-translation translated back into Russian: "В стране, где примерно 50 компаний дают 50 процентов своих доходов Госказне…"
Where's the "economy" word in the end come from?

~"In a country where approx. 50 companies provide 50 per cent of State Treasury's income, it truly is very much deathlike".