(no subject)
Sep. 12th, 2008 12:42 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
upthera44.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
learn_russianTwo questions:
1. How would you translate "I will be able to visit my family often" into Russian? It seems to me that this requires imperfective, but I've never used мочь as a future imperfective... is it possible to say "я буду мочь навещать..."? This буду мочь combination I've never seen before but it makes logical sense to me.
2. When you have a sentence that contains two words or phrases representing the same thing -- like "I read the book "Anna Karenina" or "This is a song by the group Nautilius Pompilius" where book = Anna Karenina and group = Nautilius Pompilius, does the first word or phrase absorb the declension or do both parts get declined? For instance, is it Я прочитал книгу Анну Каренину or Я прочитал книгу Анна Каренина? Это––песня группы Наутилиуса Помпилиуса or Это––песня группы Наутилиус Помпилиус?
Thanks much
1. How would you translate "I will be able to visit my family often" into Russian? It seems to me that this requires imperfective, but I've never used мочь as a future imperfective... is it possible to say "я буду мочь навещать..."? This буду мочь combination I've never seen before but it makes logical sense to me.
2. When you have a sentence that contains two words or phrases representing the same thing -- like "I read the book "Anna Karenina" or "This is a song by the group Nautilius Pompilius" where book = Anna Karenina and group = Nautilius Pompilius, does the first word or phrase absorb the declension or do both parts get declined? For instance, is it Я прочитал книгу Анну Каренину or Я прочитал книгу Анна Каренина? Это––песня группы Наутилиуса Помпилиуса or Это––песня группы Наутилиус Помпилиус?
Thanks much
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 04:55 am (UTC)2. Second. Анна Каренина and Наутилус Помпилиус.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 05:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 08:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 05:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 05:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 06:22 am (UTC)... means rather, that you've read a book from this author.
If you mean a book with this name, one should say:
>> Я прочитал "Анну Каренину"
In the spoken language it would be surely known from the context, if you mean it with or without "".
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 04:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 05:22 am (UTC)2. Yes you can say Я прочитал/прочёл "Анну Каренину" or Это песня "Наутилуса" (not Наутилиуса BTW). But it sounds colloquial. And quotes are necessary anyway.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 06:06 am (UTC)You could also say У меня будет/появится возможность... The latter form (w/ появится) more strongly implies your current inability or a condition preventing you from visiting the family now, which you think will be resolved later on.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 11:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 11:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 06:09 am (UTC)"Я буду иметь возможность чаще навещать свою семью". Second sentence is more bookish style.
In Russian the verb "мочь" used rarely as infinitive.
2. Я прочитал книгу Анна Каренина. Это песня группы Наутилус Помпилиус. But in collquial speech people rather say "Я прочитал Анну Каренину", "Это песня Наутилуса Помпилиуса"
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 06:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 12:25 pm (UTC)Silly Russian, Arghh!
//offtop mode off
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 10:54 am (UTC)2. When there are really two words (like 'book' = 'Anna Karenina'), you should not decline the second part, but it's sometimes acceptable to decline the name if it is used on its own ("Я прочитал 'Анну Каренину'").
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 11:47 am (UTC)In such case "able" is adjective, but its Russian equivalent is verb. What gives us "I will [able as verb]" construction. That construction translates to Russian without an auxilary.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 12:13 pm (UTC)The future tense is interesting and not every auxiliary verb is meaningless in translation.
English to Russian:
will + infinitive -> future perfective
will be + gerund -> future imperfective
will have + past participle -> future perfective
will have been + gerund -> future imperfective
I will do it -> я сделаю это
I will be doing it -> я буду делать это
I will have done it -> я сделаю это (e.g. к 3-м часам)
I will have been doing it -> я буду делать это (e.g. уже 2 часа к ряду)
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 12:24 pm (UTC)"Can" also an auxilary.
> The future tense is interesting and not every auxiliary verb is meaningless in translation.
They aren't meaningless, they haven't direct translation -- all depends on the other word.
> I will do it -> я сделаю это
But: I will do it tomorrow -> Я займусь этим завтра.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 03:19 pm (UTC)I interpreted your "just grammatical glue" as meaningless. Poor wording, I guess? :)
Я займусь этим завтра... Заняться = начать, perfective. Заниматься, начинать - imperfective.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 06:12 pm (UTC)Err... How is the glue may be meaningless? I intended to say that words cannot be direct translated. That's all.
> Я займусь этим завтра... Заняться = начать, perfective. Заниматься, начинать - imperfective.
> I will do it -> я сделаю это
Perfect form is translated as imperfect. How does it seem to you?
Indefinite tense have two senses regard to Russian: 1) simpliest way to announce an action; 2) announce a repeated action. So there appered collisions as such as in your example where imperfective become perfective.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-13 06:13 am (UTC)I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with me w.r.t. the perfect and imperfect future forms or you're asking my opinion.
But I can add one more example to the ones already provided:
I will work tomorrow = Я буду работать завтра
Here the imperfect(ive) is in both languages. And notice it's not exactly the same thing to say Я поработаю завтра. Perhaps this Russian verb doesn't behave the same way as the verb делать w.r.t. (im)perfection.
So, the simple future from English can in fact be translated as either future imperfect or future perfect in Russian. There're some reasons for that.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 01:54 pm (UTC)You have caused me to realize how complicated English must be to non-native English speakers.
Could you give me an example of "will + infinitive -> future perfective" in a Russian sentence and the corresponding English translation?
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 03:50 pm (UTC)I will call you tomorrow Я позвоню тебе завтра
I will draw a picture Я нарисую картину
I will go to work Я пойду на работу
...
Now that I think about it... I think with some verbs the correct (or should I say natural) translation may be only with the imperfective:
I will sleep tight tonight Я буду спать крепко сегодня ночью
While we could say Я посплю сегодня ночью, the meaning would be different for several reasons.
First, посплю implies that I haven't slept well lately or I'm too tired and all I want is to sleep. Second, you can't just stick in крепко after посплю as in the original sentence. The reason is, when we describe an action as a process in detail, when we concentrate on it instead of merely stating a fact, we have to use the imperfective form of the verb. And this is such a case.
So, Я посплю крепко сегодня ночью isn't correct with the perfective form.
This is most often seen in the past tense, where simple past can be translated to Russian in either perfective or imperfective, depending on many details, one of which is the focus on the action's process vs the focus on the action's result.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 01:47 pm (UTC)I'm trying to think what I would have said, spontaneously, if I wanted to convey this thought based on what I already know.
Since the verb навещать isn't in my repertoire (but now it is!), I think I would've come up with something like this:
Мне будет возможно часто заходить у семьи.
Would this be grammatically correct and convey the idea? If not, I'm calling up the Russian Fix-it Squad. You guys are great!
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 03:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 06:28 pm (UTC)Я смогу часто заходить домой would be well.
-- OR --
У меня будет возможность часто заходить домой.
I point that "заходить к семье" usualy are said about someone else's family.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 06:54 pm (UTC)1) I will be able to visit my family often.
Я смогу навещать/посещать/заходить к своей 7е часто.
2) I read the book "Anna Karenina."
Я читаю книгу "Анна Каренина".
This is a song by the group Nautilius Pompilius.
Это песня группы Наутилус Помпилиус.
ЗЫ: И, народ, не надо лохматить бабушку...
no subject
Date: 2008-09-12 09:47 pm (UTC)Also "навещать/посещать к своей семье" does not look really good to me (to say nothing of the alternative spelling of семья that you use).
no subject
Date: 2008-09-16 05:26 pm (UTC)