(no subject)

[upthera44.livejournal.com]

Two new questions! 

Do Russians use the phrase "rhetorical question" (риторический вопрос) often? Or is this just a translation from English and no one really says it?

Also I've noticed a conversational phrase "что за что-то"? which seems to mean "What's this ... ?" or "What's the ... for?"For example Что за бред? --> something like "What's this nonsense?"  Am I understanding this construction right? Can it be used with any nouns or is it a fixed phrase with just бред?

Comments

[pjatochkin.livejournal.com]

it's beaing used wide enough ;)

didn't get it about the second phrase... what is the context?

[sithoid.livejournal.com]

1) Yes, we do. Not really often, but when it comes to the rhetorical questions, we call them just that.

2) "Что за..." is mostly "What the.. ?" So it can be used with бред, or with other negative nouns, or curse words. But in more common case, it`s just a question. E.g. "Что это за машина стоит во дворе?", "Что у вас за праздник?"

[gordin.livejournal.com]

1. Риторический вопрос is completely equal to the English phrase, you can use it with no fear of being misunderstood.
2. It's a common construction, but it seems you're getting it not right a bit: что за бред means just "what a nonsense". But it can not always be translated like that. Generally "что за ..." is a rhetorical question, meaning that the object of the question is not as expected (in both - positive or negative manner).

"Что за вопрос", for example, means (I might not know a right idiom in English) "what a question" and can mean both "absolutely! You shouldn't have even asked" and "What an inappropriate question, I'm not answering it!" depending on the context.

"Что за бред/идиотизм/фигня" means that the speaker considers the piece of information nonsense/idiocy/rubbish and so on - anything similar works that way. In some cases the same construction can be not a rhetorical question, though, and then it means that the speaker is surprised "What's this nonsense", like you said. It can be distinguished by having or not having an intonation of an actual question in speech and a question mark in writing - if it's rhetorical people would just put a period, I'd say. But it depends, of course - can't be sure with no context, again.

"Что за глазки!" on the other hand is an old-fashioned (used in classical literature and now as a reference to it, mostly) way to express admiration of something cute, like baby's eyes, for example.


Probably someone else will add to this - usage seems to be pretty vague. ))

[pigmeich.livejournal.com]

1. Yes, we use this.

2. Close enough to english "what the smth." (emphasis adds). "What the f***" -- "Что за х****", "what the hell smth. [question is going on]" -- "Какая н**** что-то [follows by emphasized question]".

[oryx_and_crake]

"Какая н**** что-то [follows by emphasized question]".
----
I am a native speaker of Russian and I could not understand what you mean by this. Could you please explain?

[night-in-light.livejournal.com]

Какая на*** разница?

[oryx_and_crake]

What does it have to do with "что за..." expression?

[night-in-light.livejournal.com]

Nothing. I just answered your question.

[pigmeich.livejournal.com]

I apologies for my bad-bad mood. :))

[oryx_and_crake]

OK, but I am still curious.

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

Yes, риторический вопрос is used among educated people.

Что за has few meanings, for once it's the most generic question about something, say "Что это за кнопка?" can mean "What is this button for?" but can also mean "How does this button look?" or "Where can I find this button?". The exact question is usually in the context, for example:

- Тут какой-то человек ходил, тебя искал. (Somebody came by looking for you)
- Что за человек? (What did he look like?)
- С бородой, в очках. (Glasses, beard)
- А, это Петрович, я его по пути встретил. (Ah, this is Petrovitch, I've already met him)

compare to:
- Что за человек Петрович, можно ему ответсвенную работу дать? (What kind of man is Petrovitch? Can we trust him with a delicate job?)
- Петрович надежный мужик, не подведет. (He is allright, he is not going to fail you)
Also you can make generic statements answering your own generic questions like:
Я не знаю, что у вас за комьютеры, но на наших все работает. (I don't know what kind of computers you've got, it works just fine with ours)

Yet another meaning is a strong statement about something:
- Что за вино! Амброзия! (What a wine! The Ambrosia!)
just like in case with the question it's just most generic but emotional statement.

[oryx_and_crake]

+1

[slovami.livejournal.com]

One interesting thing to notice about this construction is that in spite of the preposition за, which should take accusative (винительный) or instrumental (творительный) case, the noun is actually in nominative case.

I noticed this when I heard a mother say to her little boy: Что за невоспитанный мальчик! (What a naughty/ill-bred little boy!) It's also clear with feminine nouns.

I've been interested in a syntactic analysis of this for a while (I study/studied linguistics). Linguists generally believe that prepositions can't govern nominative case in any language. If anyone has seen such an analysis, I would love to know about it.

[oryx_and_crake]

I believe that the verb does not govern the noun here.

[slovami.livejournal.com]

You mean the preposition doesn't govern the noun, right? :)

[oryx_and_crake]

Neither does. Normally a preposition and a noun in a (non-nominative) case mean that there is a verb somewhere, governing this preposition and this noun. But not in this case.

[yms.livejournal.com]

"за" is not a preposition here but a part of particle (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Частица_(часть_речи)) "что за".

[vakhitov.livejournal.com]

Regarding "что за", if you studied German or some Scandinavian languages, they have similar constructions with the same meaning:

was fuer ... (German)
hva for ... (Norwegian)

[spiritrc.livejournal.com]

People in Russia not just use the phrase 'риторический вопрос', but I would say they over-use it. Too many people using it don't actually understand what a rhetorical question is. :) But yes, they use it often.

As to 'что за <что-то>' phrases, you get them right. They can be used with virtually any noun, but the meaning may differ:

Что за бред/чушь/ерунда?! = What a nonesense!
[Obscene] Что за хуйня (тут происходит)?! = What the fuck (is going on here)!?
[Obscene] Что за поебень (тут валяется)?! = What's this shit (is scatteredlying here)!?
Что за машина (у тебя)? = What kind of a car (do you have)?
or
- Он купил машину (He bought a car)
- Что за машина/машину? (What car?)