(no subject)

[olydiagron.livejournal.com]

Хелло!

All (yes, all!) my Russian teachers claim that 
искать - найти 
is an aspect pair. I think they are wrong, but then they are professional linguists, and I am not... 

I think the aspect pairs should be: 
искать - отыскать
находить - найти

What do you think?

бай! (как говорит отец Иннокентий)

Comments

[oscar-6.livejournal.com]

My answer is perfectly correct. I felt that olydiagron would need an explanation why her perception is wrong and why "находить" falls out.

Please be more careful in your consideration to avoid picking on people trying to help.

[olydiagron.livejournal.com]

Well, what you say confirms what I beleive, not what my teachers say!

You write:
"Находить" usually means "find" as in "I find this movie disgusting". When used in context of searching it indicates repeated action ("When I use Google I always find what I'm looking for" -- "Когда я пользуюсь Гуглом, я всегда нахожу то, что ищу"), but not present time, as "искать" does.

So that means that "naxodit'" is the imperfect of "najti"! Wich is what I calim.

[oscar-6.livejournal.com]

That's the point. "Находить" isn't an imperfect of "найти". It doesn't have a pair at all. As I wrote, the only usage of this verb in context of searching would be in "Every time {something happens}, я нахожу". ("Find" as in "I find this movie disgusting" isn't really about searching, is it?)

You can't say "I'm looking for my glasses" as "Я нахожу свои очки". It would be "Я ищу свои очки". If you were to use "находить", it would be something like "Я всегда нахожу свои очки на полке", which would imply that you lose your glasses often, but always find them lying on a shelf.

Yes, I can see why this is confusing, because "искать -- найти" falls out from general rule (as you wrote below), but that's the way it is.

[zauberer.livejournal.com]

Please let me point out that russian aspect doesn't perfectly correspond to english relationship between imperfect and perfect. So your explanation is wrong. Consider an example: "Наша задача -- искать и находить, а не тратить время зря". Here искать и находить are both imperfective, but you couldn't refrase this sentence to make them both perfective: "Всё, что нам осталось -- ... и найти решение" (although you could use different perfective verb with close meaning like "поискать и найти решение").

I hope this shows that verb "искать" doesn't really have an aspect pair.

P.S. Zaliznyak dictionary gives an aspect pair to "найти": "находить", see http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/morph.cgi?flags=wndnnnn&root=config&word=%ED%E0%E9%F2%E8

[zauberer.livejournal.com]

$ stands for corresponding verb in an aspect pair in case such a verb exists. Today I checked the paper version of the dictionary, and discovered that it gives "находить" as an imperfective pair for "найти", and doesn't give any pairs for "искать" и "отыскать".

[olydiagron.livejournal.com]

Thanks! What about najti and naxodit'? They are probably an aspect pair, right?
many people here has explained to me that naxodit' can mean "getting a certain impression of something, and therefore, they claim it is another meaning. But the word "find" can have this exact meaning in every other language I know, so I claim it is not another lexical meaning at all. It is siply just another aspect: the process of finding.

Like:
- I found my glasses (J'ai trouvé mes lunettes) - Ja nashla svoi ochki.

- I find this film interesting (Je trouve ce film intéréssant) - Ja naxozhu etot film interesnym.

[olydiagron.livejournal.com]

aha, thats why Volk and otherssuggested "Ja obnaruzhila ego v uzhaznom sostayanii", beacause to use "nashla" would sound calquish.

[olydiagron.livejournal.com]

of course naxodit' doesent mean search. And najti doesent mean search. I think you do not understand my question.

Here is an example were you could say that naxodit' and najti are apect pairs:

- I found my glasses (J'ai trouvé mes lunettes) - Ja nashla svoi ochki.

- I find this film interesting (Je trouve ce film intéréssant) - Ja naxozhu etot film interesnym.

[olydiagron.livejournal.com]

thank you!