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I know what the word mean!!! Im intrested in the structuring them in Aspect pairs.

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Hi, hi.

- Как вы находите мою грудь?
- С трудом-с....

But exactly those two meanings of the word "find" you have both in swedish english and french.

1. To find something appealing, or
2. to finally find the pen you lost.

It is the same word english (to find and to find), but in Russian you would choose a imperfect verb in the first case ( because it is a process) and a perfect verb (because it is a result) in the second. So that strengthens the theory that naxodit', najti is an aspect pair?

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cassandraclue.livejournal.com

i would agree with you although i think the imp. of отыскать is отыскивать. I think of находить in the sense of something being able to be found there and найти as the exact moment something is found, if that makes sense. искать to me denotes the process of searching. but i do think of искать and найти as linked, which it what maybe your teacher are getting at... i.e., you are searching for something (the process искать) and then you find it (the result найти).

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you although i think the imp. of отыскать is отыскивать

Well you can often make a "aspect chain" of verbs instead of just pairs, with the lexical meaning differing a bit.

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cassandraclue.livejournal.com

true, but when i looked it up in the dictionary that's what it gave as the imp. :)

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mine too, thanks!

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hm, on what page is the anser to my question?

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Your teachers are right. You're wrong.

"Найти" and "отыскать" are synonyms. The latter emphasises efforts put into searching.

"Находить" usually means "find" as in "I find this movie disgusting". When used in context of searching it indicates repeated action ("When I use Google I always find what I'm looking for" -- "Когда я пользуюсь Гуглом, я всегда нахожу то, что ищу"), but not present time, as "искать" does.

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oryx_and_crake

The question was not about synonyms but about aspect pairs. Please be more careful in your comments to avoid misleading people with wrong answers.

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My answer is perfectly correct. I felt that

olydiagron would need an explanation why her perception is wrong and why "находить" falls out.

Please be more careful in your consideration to avoid picking on people trying to help.

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Well, what you say confirms what I beleive, not what my teachers say!

You write:
"Находить" usually means "find" as in "I find this movie disgusting". When used in context of searching it indicates repeated action ("When I use Google I always find what I'm looking for" -- "Когда я пользуюсь Гуглом, я всегда нахожу то, что ищу"), but not present time, as "искать" does.

So that means that "naxodit'" is the imperfect of "najti"! Wich is what I calim.

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That's the point. "Находить" isn't an imperfect of "найти". It doesn't have a pair at all. As I wrote, the only usage of this verb in context of searching would be in "Every time {something happens}, я нахожу". ("Find" as in "I find this movie disgusting" isn't really about searching, is it?)

You can't say "I'm looking for my glasses" as "Я нахожу свои очки". It would be "Я ищу свои очки". If you were to use "находить", it would be something like "Я всегда нахожу свои очки на полке", which would imply that you lose your glasses often, but always find them lying on a shelf.

Yes, I can see why this is confusing, because "искать -- найти" falls out from general rule (as you wrote below), but that's the way it is.

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Please let me point out that russian aspect doesn't perfectly correspond to english relationship between imperfect and perfect. So your explanation is wrong. Consider an example: "Наша задача -- искать и находить, а не тратить время зря". Here искать и находить are both imperfective, but you couldn't refrase this sentence to make them both perfective: "Всё, что нам осталось -- ... и найти решение" (although you could use different perfective verb with close meaning like "поискать и найти решение").

I hope this shows that verb "искать" doesn't really have an aspect pair.

P.S. Zaliznyak dictionary gives an aspect pair to "найти": "находить", see http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/morph.cgi?flags=wndnnnn&root=config&word=%ED%E0%E9%F2%E8

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$ stands for corresponding verb in an aspect pair in case such a verb exists. Today I checked the paper version of the dictionary, and discovered that it gives "находить" as an imperfective pair for "найти", and doesn't give any pairs for "искать" и "отыскать".

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olydiagron.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-02-28 03:24 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From:

olydiagron.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-02-28 07:53 pm (UTC) - Expand

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of course naxodit' doesent mean search. And najti doesent mean search. I think you do not understand my question.

Here is an example were you could say that naxodit' and najti are apect pairs:

- I found my glasses (J'ai trouvé mes lunettes) - Ja nashla svoi ochki.

- I find this film interesting (Je trouve ce film intéréssant) - Ja naxozhu etot film interesnym.

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olydiagron.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-02-28 07:49 pm (UTC) - Expand

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I know what the words mean...

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Great, then you should be able to tell why "найти" can't be a pair for "находить".

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They both mean "to find". So they could be pairs. Verbs of motion with certain prefixes often form aspect pairs.

Vyxodit' - vyjti for instance.

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al-r.livejournal.com

I teach Russian. I do it with all my heart, I enjoy it greatly. And I can't stop admiring the depth of your interest in my language!!! It's fantastic. Indeed. Как говорится, большой респект!

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thank you... I am obsessed I guess!

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искать = look for, search, seek
найти = find, figure out
отыскать = to get found

находить - is kind of "ability to find" and usually used with "can". For example: Я умею находить выход из сложной ситуации.

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"Находить" usually means "find" as in "I find this movie disgusting". When used in context of searching it indicates repeated action ("When I use Google I always find what I'm looking for" -- "Когда я пользуюсь Гуглом, я всегда нахожу то, что ищу"), but not present time, as "искать" does.

Above you explain to me that naxodit' is a imperfect verb, an as all perfect verbs it means either repetition, ability, process. But is it in pair with najti? That is my question... ;-)

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искать - поискать?

I wouldn't mess up "искать" and "найти", they are different words. I wouldn't even call them synonyms, though I might be wrong. I could ask my mom, she's a teacher of Russian.

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"wouldn't mess up "искать" and "найти", they are different words."
yeah, thats what i think too. But my russian teachers claim otherwise.

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She could be wrong, but it's not a question of life or death, is it? Russian language is not very strict and there's lot of exceptions and ambiguous words :)

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искать - поискать?
hm, i thouhgt about that as a pair too, poiskat' wpould be the perfect that denotes to do something a little, while otyskat' i the resultative. Oh this i s compicated!

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I never realized how is difficult Russian. Language is not Math, it was not scientifically designed so there are many confusing and unexplainable things. Just take it easy or switch to Esperanto :)

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speaking of Google, did you see this page already? - http://www.masterrussian.com/aa031600a.shtml

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andrey-bessonov.livejournal.com

I'd agree with

cassandraclue: the imperfective for отыскать is отыскивать.

I'd say that both искать - найти
and
находить - найти
are aspect pairs but with different meanings.
"искать - найти" is "process - result"
"находить - найти" is "many times/constantly - one time"

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Thanks! That's true, it is not they could all be pairs, russian verbs are not monogamous?

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andrey-bessonov.livejournal.com

No, Russian verbs are not 'monogamous' :-) see below.

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Ours too, but to me search and find are still verbs with diffrent lexical meanings and therefore not aspect pairs. Like "jump" and "land", or "sleep" and "wake up"...

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It's a difficult question, but in search for an answer to it one should not forget that not all Russian verbs have aspect pairs, and there couldn't be two aspect pairs with the same verb (as proposed by

andrey_bessonov).

Also remember that there's a simple way to determine the aspect of a verb: if the verb gives an answer to a question "what to do?" -- it's imperfective (что делать: искать, находить, отыскивать), but if the verb gives answer to a question "what to have done?" -- it's perfective (что сделать: найти, отыскать).

So it seems to me that the verb искать doesn't have corresponding perfective verb.

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"So it seems to me that the verb искать doesn't have corresponding perfective verb."
Thanks!
aha, yeah, maybe it is allways a process to search. (verbs are like humans, some are lonely, some have multiple partners ;-)

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andrey-bessonov.livejournal.com

In Paducheva's article that

daniil_ognok posted a link to, it is specifically stated: the notion of the aspect pair has to do with the verb in a particular meaning, not the verb as such (see pp. 36-37). So what's the problem with several aspect pairs? There is no problem! says Paducheva, see p. 38.

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I never looked at the situation from this point of view, this is completely new to me. Thanks for the info.

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> So it seems to me that the verb искать doesn't have corresponding perfective verb.

"Поискал"?

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