Russian culture question

[tricours.livejournal.com]

One thing that I've remarked several times when reading the blogs of Scandinavians or other westeners who've spent some time in Russia, is that they comment on how Russians don't smile. I've read lots of "I went home for the holidays and once again I was met with a smile when I went to the store to shop" etc. etc. Also one girl commented that some railroad personnel at a station where trains come in from Finland greeted her with a smile because "that's what they know westerners expect as good service". Do clerks and shop personnel in Russia not smile? As a clerk in Sweden or Norway it's practically written in your contract that "YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SMILE AT CUSTOMERS" ;)

At the same time, I met this Russian travel agent who's lived in the Caribbeans for the last 10 years and who thought service in Norway was completely awful. But perhaps he was comparing it to that of the Caribbeans, and not to the Russian one?

Comments

[alamar.livejournal.com]

Yes, they don't generally.

Why would you smile when there's nothing particulary fun happening?

[alamar.livejournal.com]

P.S. Service doesn't relate directly to smiles.
You can get awful service with smiles and the other way around.

[tricours.livejournal.com]

Hm, does a smile have to have something to do with fun?

I smile at my customers to be friendly, they are shopping in my store, they're making me a favor (giving me their money). They often smile back at me, and they are in a good mood, and I guess it all has to do with that we think a customer who is treated in that way will shop more :)

I have lots of regulars, so I'm practically friends with my customers and they often ask me about my weekend and so on.

[bs-chvstvnn.livejournal.com]

Rugged Siberian barbarians smile very seldom and only to persons they like.

[ex-rudm853.livejournal.com]

siberian barbarians smile only to medveds with balalaykas.

[dryoldscholar.livejournal.com]

That's a "good" soviet tradition. Smiling means getting vultarable. One should prevent every possible offence with a more aggressive and repulsive mask on one's face.

[noiseless-steps.livejournal.com]

well said =)

[colonelrabin.livejournal.com]

This is an ever lasting general topic.

It's normal in the Russian culture to smile or laugh when something funny happens or if you really want to show your pleasure etc.
A smile is considered a true expression of a feeling or mood, not a standard courtesy sign.
The usual American "smile-of-32-teeth" can be referred to as "insincere" or "artificial" by Russians.

If a Russian doesn't smile, it doesn't meen that he or she is angry or hates you etc.

[ex-rudm853.livejournal.com]

+1 :-)

[noiseless-steps.livejournal.com]

I would prefer "smiling" service anyway. I'd love to see smiling faces when I enter a shop of a cafe or whatever=) I always smile when I greet shop-assistants or clerks... I always smile when I greet people. For me smile - is a great part of good service and of the entire life. but nowadays more and more russians... just smile)

what concerns Norway... I haven't seen lot's of smiling faces there honestly=)

and as for the Carribeans... people there are amazing, they not only smiling, they seem really happy, and I suppose they are happy) to my mind nothing can be compared to service in the Carribeans))

[tricours.livejournal.com]

Yes I can imagine people truly ARE more happy in those places, where there's less of a stressful lifestyle and relaxing is more socially accepted. The climate surely helps as well!

[ex-rudm853.livejournal.com]

It's so simple. We don't smile if we don't want to.
We don't share western standart of neverending smiling without emotions because we think that its stupid, some kind of clown or puppet. To tell the truth, most russians don't like western standarts. Especially, conserning culture.
Sorry for my bad English.

[evermore-spb.livejournal.com]

How can you tell for 'most russians' so confidently?

[acuzena.livejournal.com]

I think it's a well known fact about Russia that we inherited bad service from the soviet times. Sometimes it is just a lazy person who doesn't care about customers or whatever. But speaking about Moscow I must admit that we have a good progress down here. In most stores, coffee shops and book stores the staff has began smiling and being more polite to you.
I think in some 5 years we'll have just almost the same level of service that an average European country.
As for the others I've been to, the best service was in the US and Check Republic, a regular one in France and Spain ( I mean that it differed from place to place, but was nice in general). The same "lazy facies" I've met in Turkey. Besides in Turkey the personnel of the hotel and shops always tried to fool me (charged me more, didn't give the promised discout or lied about the real qualities of a good).
The only thing that doesn't work here at all - that we don't greet bus drivers and never thank them.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Servive is improving, say you. There is nothing more dusgusting than a Russian sales manager who darts at you as soon as you enter the premise, saying the most terrible thing on planet Earth:
- Вам шо-та падсказаать? :)
("shall I suggest something to you" -- pronounced with bad Southern accent :))))

[chantfleuri.livejournal.com]

All depends, I think. Mostly depends on shop policy or personality of a shop assistant.
But when I returned from German to Russia iy was a big shock for me, that shop assistans do not smile, do not say 'hallo' and 'bye' and behave themselves as if they want me to leave their shop as far as possible, something like "Buy or go away!". It's not only the shops' problem, we can see the same behaviour in many organisations, especially bureaucratic-type. Tradition from the Soviet time :(
But in modern shops and malls (especially when they sell expensive stuff) assistants try to be friendly in general.

[tricours.livejournal.com]

Just by going from Sweden to Norway and then back, I was actually a bit surprised at how we Swedes don't say bye when we leave shops. We usually say hi, but when you've paid etc you just say "thanks" and leave, you don't actually say bye, or as we say in Norway "ha det (bra)" (literally "have it good"). I found myself swallowing down my "ha det!" several times a day when I was back in Sweden ;)

[febb.livejournal.com]

Yes, I nave smile. We are very seriuos guys! :)

[cranberry-babe.livejournal.com]

+1 :)
this topic is really hot :))

[bs-chvstvnn.livejournal.com]

Yes, do not use and do not wear.

[oryx_and_crake]

Why do you expect people in other country to behave YOUR way?

[tricours.livejournal.com]

Well, I *was* asking a question, in case you didn't notice. I said "this is what I've heard" and asked "is this true?". And why should I necessarily expect something different when I don't know anything about the other, but only know what is mine?

If people have said "Hello" to me all my life and I go live in another place where people don't greet each other, of course I would be surprised. I have "only" lived in three countries, so I don't know the customs of all the countries in the world yet.

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

I have once experienced the extreme form of this, IMHO, stupid thing, smiling without a reason... Some 10 years ago I had a part time job, I was a courier delivering business documents around the city. I got the docs from one firm and went to the other firm where they had to be delivered to. In the office I was unusually warmly met by the secretary, but I ignored her behavior thinking maybe I din't get something or she'd straighten up. You don't want to judge people immediately, after all. Since I had to deliver those particular docs personally and that person was reportedly busy in some meeting, I couldn't just hand in the docs to the secretary or anybody else and leave and so I ended up waiting. While I was waiting, the secretary tried to be friendly (or whatever that was) and amuse me by chatting about some general stuff. The problem was, she was talking to me not only smiling, but also in a way people talk to their babies and beloved ones, with that special intonation and sort of phrases. I don't know if that had anything to do with me, or if she had little children and was obsessed with that or that that was the way she was supposed to treat guests, but it was incredibly humiliating and turning off. I was counting moments and hoping the meeting was over soon...
The thing is, if you don't mean it, you shouldn't be doing it. It's that simple.
And then everybody knows there's nothing behind those automatic smiles and phrases like "have a good one". You can make a machine do that. What truly matters is the service, if the client got what they wanted or was suggested other options. If the client isn't satisfied, the smile doesn't help. Why bother faking things up? Simply being kind and polite suffices.

[tricours.livejournal.com]

Extremes are never good.
In this part of the world, being kind and polite often includes a smile, so the basic idea is the same then. Only we think you are rude when you don't smile at us, and you think we are stupid when we do... ;)

Smiling needn't be that fake, perhaps we are just more inclined to smile when we are in a good mood. Shop clerks *can* be in a good mood.

[towarysc.livejournal.com]

Here's a fine citaton from G. Chkhartishvili (translation's mine, sorry for possible mistakes): 'When a Russian's smiling, it means either he likes his interlocutor, or he's in good mood. When me or you are smiling , it means we're not ashamed of our dentist'.

Million smiles for you!:)

[mortimer-ford.livejournal.com]

I find this true among Russian owned businesses here in America and also among the Bosnian communities. At first the environment seems a little rude almost as if they want your American ass to go away, but that's not the case(mostly). If I ask for help, or perhaps directions I have found them to be genuinely helpful, often going to an extent beyond most customer service as it is here in America.

I can see how smiles and rehearsed formalities can seem intrusive to a stranger, but growing up in the south, where this is especially prevailant I do not think that much of this excessive smiling is actually deceitful. A lot of the Americans I know enjoy getting to know strangers. Of course, in cases with commision based employees (salesmen) this is obviously not true and seen as insulting by most sane people whom possess an average intelligence.

I also find a lot of Russians to be more verbal or straightforward with their displeasure. A lot like New Yorkers. I sometimes wonder if this more honest approach to social interaction keeps a person more in touch with their emotions, which I consider an asset to sanity.

[sambuev.livejournal.com]

Russian people never smile, because they do'nt have money evertime ) and people who have money, never smile too, because if you will smile - people knows "you have a lot of money" and will hate you.

some like this )

[ex-forest-l.livejournal.com]

I reckon it's just lack of culture on this point. Russians are exactly the same as other humankind, apart from the fact that they're not accustomed to smiling often. I lived a lot of time abroad and when I meet a stranger I start smiling by instinct, and it seems to really work on people around here. Or at least lots of my friends complain that the crowd around them is all so aggressive and unkind and I never had such a problem.

In defense of smiling

[eavanmoore.livejournal.com]

A number of people here have suggested that a smile is only a mask worn over an emotionless and uncaring interior, and is therefore dishonest. I find that not to be true. In my American social context, acting friendly does serve a useful function. It's not just meaningless pretense.

I'm an American, and I smile a lot. I am surrounded by people who do the same. Sometimes it does seem forced and I wonder afterwards, "Why was I grinning?!"

But I have found that behaving as if I'm happy and enjoying the moment actually makes me enjoy the moment more. Smiling is often a part of that effort. It's not just a mask; it's a way of changing everyone's perception of an event. Acting friendly can open people up, lead them to say interesting things, or make them feel a bit of camaraderie.

I worked at an amusement park over the summer, operating rides. This is a repetitive job where you can easily get bored. It takes extra effort to slap a smile on your face and cheerfully greet customers. Sometimes I was just too tired to make the effort. But I did notice a difference when I did go to the trouble to smile at people and joke around as I loaded them and ran the ride. The younger kids just do their own thing and barely notice us, most of the time, but the older people looked like they were enjoying the ride more if I acted like I was enjoying running it. And again, I found that if I pretended to enjoy it, I did enjoy it a little more.

Re: In defense of smiling

[vakhitov.livejournal.com]

What you're saying is quite insightful. It's a shame that a lot of people don't understand it. A smile can be seen as a road to the future instead of a mere reaction to the present. And when you're smiling, you do change your perception of the world, because the mind and the body form a single cybernetic system.

[cassandraclue.livejournal.com]

I hate how friendly American shopclerks are actually. I just usually want to get my shopping done and get out of there. I prefer Russian shopclerks frowning and ignoring me.

[bs-chvstvnn.livejournal.com]

Awesome! That's the concrete position of the woman that knows what she wants. Respect.

[crimeanelf.livejournal.com]

They do smile in luxury stores. In general when we smile, we mean different thing compared to other places, it's just the language of gestures is different. Check this (http://crimeanelf.livejournal.com/16923.html) out.

[robomarkov.livejournal.com]

You make an interesting point in your post. In the part where you describe the greeting "Hello, how are you?", the confusion is not left to just Russians. People from the U.K. have also misunderstood this typical American greeting.

I don't know why we American's ask it. Most times it is totally insincere. We just don't really want to know if you are having problems. We expect the answer to be "Fine. And you?" However, if things are not fine, it is appropriate to answer with a very short statement, for example "I have been better", or "Terrible. I have the ebola virus," or "I am very frustrated. Traffic was awful."

Note that the replies are always very short and lacking any detail. If the person you are speaking with wishes to know more, they will ask.

I believe the Danish also have a similar greeting "Hvordan har du det?", or "How goes it?", but I am unsure of its proper cultural use.

I sometimes like to "punish" my fellow Americans by giving them lengthy answers. When I see them grimace or try to change the subject, I say to them "If you didn't want to know, why did you ask?" (that was a rhetorical question - a question where an answer is not expected but is intended to provoke thought).

[uncle-gora.livejournal.com]

In the Motherland we say "Смех без причины - признак дурачины". (could be translated as "A laughter without any reasons is a sign of stupidity"), or "Ну что ты улыбаешься как дурачок?" ( "What are you smiling about, like an idiot") and for may Russians there is not much (functional) difference between a laughter and a smile. Both are used to express different degrees of amusement.
Hence smiling at a customer, or (God forbid) at some random guy walking passed you on the street, will be misinterpreted.
And to wrap it up, I shall tell you a Russian anecdote (which some of the Russian readers could consider to be a "БАЯН")

Two guys are walking down the street, and one says to another:
- Look buddy, that hot girl across the street just smiled at me...
- What so you expect, when I first saw you, I couldn't stop laughing for a week.

[alon_68]

Very interesting, how many people here began to expess their dislike of Americans addressing this to a Swede girl. Seems like these people even today have some mythological image of "general Westerner=American=NewYorker" and cannot differ between such unlike countries :)

American Smiles

[robomarkov.livejournal.com]

I was just reading crimeanelf's post (http://crimeanelf.livejournal.com/16923.html) on cultural differences. I have to agree with the interpretation of what an American means when they smile.

An American smile is a form of openness. It should not be interpreted as general stupidity or insincerity, but that they are saying, "I am not a threat to you. You may approach me if you wish." Lack of a smile on passing strangers can generally be understood to mean "I don't wish to be bothered at this time."

In terms of shopkeepers and clerks, it is a part of marketing. The smile is meant to make you feel like you have entered a non-threatening environment. It is a way of trying to help you have a pleasant shopping experience so that you will want to return to shop there again.

Culturally, what do Russians do to indicate their approachability to strangers? If I was to go to Russia tomorrow, how would I know what people would welcome speaking with me versus those that don't wish to be bothered?