Middle Blue

[icedink.livejournal.com]

Talking with another American living in Russia, she commented that many people react negatively to the word голубой, something which I hadn't noticed myself -- but remarking about a boy's "light-blue" sweater, for instance, would not be well-received.

The other day, I was substituting as an English language teacher for a 3rd-grade class: They'd been practicing their "question" words, and I'd received instructions that I should encourage them to ask questions about me. When I replied that my favorite color was "blue", there was a fair amount of snickering -- although I am female, the only thing which I can attribute this reaction to is the association with "голубой."

Question is this: Does anyone think that  the meaning of "goluboj" as a color might eventually have the same fate as the way of  "gay" meaning " (or whatever it meant.) Is the rising generation reluctant to use this word?

Will there no longer be a designation between light and dark blues, eliminating the "Is that голубой or синний" quandry for all of us foreigners...?

Or is this just a case of kids being kids, being uncomfortable with lots of facts of life? What does the adult population currently think?

Comments

[mr-uef.livejournal.com]

As for making predictions, I'd be cautious: any word might replace today's голубой in its negative connotation, or this topic might quit being funny/objectionable at all.

However, I might only advise deliberately avoiding the word голубой only when referring to people and only when speaking with immature audiences (both conditions required).
In all other cases, I think it's perfectly ok.

Good for Japanese - they have the word aoi for all shades of blue AND green ))

[portugalist.livejournal.com]

голубое небо sounds perfect, I see nothing gay in this phrase...

[mr-uef.livejournal.com]

absolutely,
please re-read my comment closely.

[portugalist.livejournal.com]

it was my way to say that I agree ;-)

[mr-uef.livejournal.com]

point taken ))

[la-dy-ashley.livejournal.com]

It sounds great, but some people can come up with the following saying:
Какое небо голубое! - Для голубых оно всегда такое:)

[grafinok.livejournal.com]

Голубой is widely associated with "gay" and all related to homosexualism among youth. However, I don`t think it would lead to eliminating of this word, because after 16-17 people usually react quite normally to this word. Синий would hardly replace голубой because in russian mind they are just different colours so, for instance, синее небо sounds rather strange.

[ex-tritopor.livejournal.com]

>инее небо sounds rather strange.

No, it sounds more poetic:

"Над Канадой небо синее
Меж берёз дожди косые
Хоть похоже на Россию,
Только всё же не Россия"

[lia910.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, this word is now associated with the sexual orientation more than with the color. I don't thing though that there will no longer be a designation between light and dark blue - at least in the nearest future. Just because it is too inconvenient to say two words instead of one (i.e. светло-синий vs. голубой). There is a number of more or less fixed word combinations with the word голубой - first of all голубое небо (compare: Какое небо голубое! - Какое небо светло-синее! The latter sounds very unnatural and even ridiculous).

[spbsit.livejournal.com]

it's just kids. the word is special for them becouse they use to tease each other with it. it really can be offensive in some situations with adults also but only if you would try to call them as "goluboy" in that exact meaning, sometimes people may avoid using it in equivocal situations. I'm sure it will not affect using of this word in it's main meaning "blue". but that's true that the word is strictly related to homosexualists and everyone knows about that meaning. but it's not a problem to use it.

[mr-uef.livejournal.com]

Oh puh-lease stop ranting about all these phobiae.
Their level is normal; the fact that minorities don't get preferential treatment does not mean they are oppressed.

[mr-uef.livejournal.com]

Hassids wearing their traditional hats -- can't say I have seen them in the streets of Rostov. But neither have I seen Orthodox priests wearing their sermon clothes. Not Muslim mullas. Maybe because they mostly drive, eh?

A girl I know has a boyfriend who is a DJ in a gay nightclub. He is straight, though. Haven't heard about anybody ever attacking this club. Or other gay bars in the city.

Also, I don't think that hassids would appreciate you giving them as an example next to gays.

The link you provide is something I would fight against, myself. See above: tolerance does not equal advocating. Which is exactly this billboard does. I find this disgusting.

[mr-uef.livejournal.com]

Anywhere in Russia? Anywhere in the US? Have you been to the US yourself?

I would like to dare you to put on some gay outfit and cruise across some ghetto in a large American city. Or come out of a closet in some town in a Bible Belt. Or simply to find a good job. I would happily listen to you thereafter.

Furthermore, you are distorting my words. I did not say I would be unhappy to see an openly gay person in a street - simply because this is not true. Read carefully - I do object to ADVOCATING homosexuality. Just as much as to groping and French-kissing in public. Or unnecesarily stressing the fact that senior citizens need and like sex, too.

If you think that such posters as shown in your link indicate deep tolerance rather than a necessity to fix a lingering and painful problem in a society (American in this case), you have serious trouble with logic.

[mr-uef.livejournal.com]

We're not talking about ghettos in large American cities as well as not talking about little villages in Russia. It's both, uh, special cases.

Ни хера себе special cases, pardon my Russian! So, while easily brushing aside two major groups in both cases, you undertake to make generalizations about societies in total? Oh, wow.

[mr-uef.livejournal.com]

Even better. So, as a scientist, you must've had a way to measure the level of tolerance numerically?

[mr-uef.livejournal.com]

What kind of sociologist are you, anyway?
Ever heard anything about tests, polls, statistics?

"Enough known", "Everybody knows, that...", "It's obvious", "There's no doubt" -- oh, how I love this kind of reasoning )))

[mr-uef.livejournal.com]

btw: Bible Belt is an American term coined for Southern states, like Alabama, Georgia etc. with predominantly baptist population.
(Corrections welcome.)

[eavanmoore.livejournal.com]

The billboard wasn't actually advocating homosexuality. It was making the point that homosexuals are, have been, and will be a part of the community, and deserve to be treated as such.

[cabarethaze.livejournal.com]

Exactly. It's just trying to help people understand that your very nice neighbours might be different, and that's okay.

[mooose.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say 'anywhere' myself, but when I was in Moscow, just walking down a street or taking the metro, I'd get all these dirty stares from people who probably thought I was some Kazakhstani thief.

My friend insists it was because I was 'staring' at them first, but I think I can tell when someone's looking at me in a dirty way before I even make eye contact with them. Some of the younger people looked very angry wherever I went, and I rarely felt safe when I was there.

[branwen.livejournal.com]

There are many places in the U.S. where gay people are not welcome, and there are plenty of hate crimes towards many different people here as well. It is pretty much everywhere in the world, though it varies in degree from place to place.

[cabarethaze.livejournal.com]

Not even going to attempt entering this conversation thread, but when you mention hasidic Jews and gays...all I can think is West Hollywood (Los Angeles). So many times I have seen a scantily dressed gay couple next to an observant Jew who won't even press the crosswalk light on Sabbath. No problems, everyone is generally let live as they please. I never got that same feeling in Russia, honestly, in communities of similar size.

[yourpoultry.livejournal.com]

In February 2006, Grand Mufti Talgat Tadzhuddin was quoted as saying about Moscow gay pride marchers, "If they come out on to the streets anyway they should be flogged. Any normal person would do that - Muslims and Orthodox Christians alike..."[9] Days later, Moscow's Chief Rabbi, Berl Lazar, joined Tadzhuddin in condemning the march in saying that it "would be a blow for morality", but he didn't go as far as saying that marchers should be beaten.[10]
In late April and early May 2006, protestors blockaded some popular gay clubs in Moscow. After initial complaints that police had failed to intervene, later blockade attempts were met with arrests.[11]
In May 2006, a gay rights forum was held in Moscow. An accompanying march was banned by the mayor in a decision upheld by the courts. Some activists tried to march despite the ban and attempted to lay flowers at the Tomb of the Unknown Solider. This act and the presence of non-Russian activists aroused a nationalist reaction in addition to a religious condemnation of homosexuality, leading to the presence of both neo-Nazi groups and Orthodox protesters. According to the BBC, anti-march protestors beat the marchers, and about 50 marchers and 20 protestors were arrested when riot police moved in to break up the conflict.[12]
Support for gay marriage in Russia is at 14%

[gera.livejournal.com]

I can tell you for sure that it was used this way over 20 years ago and even then it wasn't considered a novelty word.

[alon_68]

I think, 20 if not more. I remember it in the last years of school (1983-85) and definitely at the university (from 1985)

[aka-lacerda.livejournal.com]

The word 'голубой' used as noun means 'homosexual', any modern ru-en dictionary includes this meaning for it. Most people will react normally then it's used as adjective and there is no ambiguity about it.

[gera.livejournal.com]

Unless it is applied to a person there is nothing wrong with using it and there is no ambiguity.

[freedomcry.livejournal.com]

Schoolchildren generally tend to derive hilarity from overemphasising potentially "naughty" words in innocent contexts. This does not necessarily mean – and definitely does not mean in this case – that every occurrence of the word, to everyone, will be tinged with the slang meaning.

[oryx_and_crake]

+1

[freedomcry.livejournal.com]

P.S. I remember when I was about eleven, we had a dictation in which there was a phrase "сделав своё дело" – "having finished their business" – after which the teacher made a pause and in that pause, somebody laughed and the laugh spread to the whole class. The phrase could be used as a euphemism for going to the toilet, but laughing at it every time because of that was just healthy childish silliness.

[oryx_and_crake]

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn11759&feedId=online-news_rss20
According to this article, Russian speakers are better in distiguishing shades of blue exactly because Russian has a word for голубой as opposed to синий. One more proof that the first meaning of this word is colour. And the kids being kids, they will always find ribald meaning even with the most innocent word like конец etc.

[mos-stef.livejournal.com]

Funny, to remember light blue, I always mnemonically associated it with "golden boy" and thought of a boy scout wearing a light blue uniform.

I guess now the boy in my mind likes other boys!