An interesting fact for geeks like me

[kehlen-crow.livejournal.com]

Language changes, names are also transited differently with changing times.


In early XVIII century when Peter the Great found his "Навигацкая школа", navigation school, he invited three Englishmen as teachers. The origin of their surnames I cannot guess (maybe you will?) but back then the were called, in Russian,

Андрей Данилов сын Фархварсон
Степан Гвын
Рыцарь Грыз

(the decree, in old Russian)

Today, we would call them

Эндрью (Эндрю) Фарварсон
Стефан Гвин
Ричард Грейс


Just curious: anyone knows a similar example for Russian names in English?

Comments

[freedomcry.livejournal.com]

Рыцарь Грыз is cool...

A sort of counter-example is the roll of Russian names in Byron's Don Juan (Canto the Seventh):

XIV

The Russians now were ready to attack:
But oh, ye goddesses of war and glory!
How shall I spell the name of each Cossacque
Who were immortal, could one tell their story?
Alas! what to their memory can lack?
Achilles' self was not more grim and gory
Than thousands of this new and polish'd nation,
Whose names want nothing but -- pronunciation.
XV

Still I'll record a few, if but to increase
Our euphony: there was Strongenoff, and Strokonoff,
Meknop, Serge Lwow, Arséniew of modern Greece,
And Tschitsshakoff, and Roguenoff, and Chokenoff,
And others of twelve consonants apiece;
And more might be found out, if I could poke enough
Into gazettes; but Fame (capricious strumpet),
It seems, has got an ear as well as trumpet,
XVI

And cannot tune those discords of narration,
Which may be names at Moscow, into rhyme;
Yet there were several worth commemoration,
As e'er was virgin of a nuptial chime;
Soft words, too, fitted for the peroration
Of Londonderry drawling against time,
Ending in "ischskin," "ousckin," "iffskchy," "ouski":
Of whom we can insert but Rousamouski,
XVII

Scherematoff and Chrematoff, Koklophti,
Koclobski, Kourakin, and Mouskin Pouskin,
All proper men of weapons, as e'er scoff'd high
Against a foe, or ran a sabre through skin:
Little cared they for Mahomet or Mufti,
Unless to make their kettle-drums a new skin
Out of their hides, if parchment had grown dear,
And no more handy substitute been near.

[just1user.livejournal.com]

Tried to google decree date and found this:
http://www.manchesteruniversitypress.co.uk/information_areas/journals/seventeenth/190116.pdf

Their names are Henry Farquharson and Richard Grice.

I suppose that in Russian they would be called Генри Фаркерсон(?) и Ричард Грайс.

[kehlen-crow.livejournal.com]

Wow. Thank you very much for finding this book. It is always interesting to read another point of view.

(I cannot believe it. Henry?! It means nobody bothered to check when they changed "Андрей Данилов сын" into Эндрю, since Эндрю is usually how Andrew is written in Russian!)

You're right about how they should be written, yet traditionally, they are written as I did (check this article, for example http://www.mk-piter.ru/2006/07/13/033/)

[towarysc.livejournal.com]

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BE%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85_%D0%B8%D0%BC%D1%91%D0%BD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparts_of_given_names
Most are just transliterations, but there are also real pairs, like Michael - Михаил, Andrew - Андрей, Mary - Мария and so on.

[kehlen-crow.livejournal.com]

Their given names are not a problem, but surnames most certainly are. (I would NEVER have written the first name as Farquharson)

[kart.livejournal.com]

Englishmen, my ass! It was a Scot and two Welshmen :)

Andrew Farquharson
Stephen Gwynn
Richard Rhys

[kart.livejournal.com]

Oops. I just checked that PDF and saw that it's Grice, not Rhys. Confound that soft Г :p

For modern spellings, how about Фаркерсон(Ferguson)/Фаркварсон(Farquharson), Гyын and Грайс?

[kehlen-crow.livejournal.com]

May be it's more accurate, but traditionally they are written as I did - took it from this site http://www.mk-piter.ru/2006/07/13/033/

[kehlen-crow.livejournal.com]

Excuse me, I only meant they were from Great Britain. How should I have said it? Brits? ;)

Whoa! And - I was right to not even attempt to write their names - I wouldn't have succeeded :)

[apollotiger.livejournal.com]

I see calling someone “British” the same way as I see calling someone “American”. By a strict definition, it could mean they’re just from Great Britain or from the Americas, but in practice, a lot of people use “British” to mean “English” (at least over here), and ditto with “American” and “from the USA”.

[vargtimmen.livejournal.com]

[Meaning of British,] 1922 to present – [Someone from the] United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I think the problem is the Scottish resentment of "those wankers" to the South, not any problem with the term.

[kehlen-crow.livejournal.com]

Yes, I understand that the comment was meant as a joke. Yet it is beneficial to know how to "safely" address everyone ;)

[apollotiger.livejournal.com]

How about “Tchaikovsky”? I’d guess that transliterating today, we’d come up with Chaikovski …

[ponedelnik.livejournal.com]

The first translation of "Crime and Punishment" I read had all the names anglicised, or at least westernised. So Yekaterina became Catherine, Lizaveta became Elizabeth, Avdotya became Eudoxia and Porfiry became Porphyrius, to mention a few. (It wasn't a good translation anyway - I later discovered that it was censored.)

[vargtimmen.livejournal.com]

I've suffered some of those translations and I refuse to read them now. What I hate the worst is Greek epics like the Iliad where the Gods have their Roman names.

[staring-frog.livejournal.com]

There is a bilingual joke about it in Russia:

Ivan Grozny (Ivan the Terrible) sent an embassy to Elisabeth the Queen of England. The names of the ambassadors were Loginov, Stroganov, Putyatin and Neverov.
The butler announces:
— Your Royal Majesty! From Tsar Ivan, here's for you Long Enough, Strong Enough, Put It In and Never Off.

[kehlen-crow.livejournal.com]

This is awesome!

[staring-frog.livejournal.com]

And I seem to forget the most inportatnt character :)

The full version is:

Ivan Grozny (Ivan the Terrible) sent an embassy to Elisabeth the Queen of England. The names of the ambassadors were Loginov, Stroganov, Putyatin, Fokin and Neverov.
The butler announces:
— Your Royal Majesty! From Tsar Ivan, here's for you Long Enough, Strong Enough, Put It In, Fucking and Never Off.

[lexabear.livejournal.com]

Car Talk has a similar joke about their Russian chauffers Pikup and Dropov.