Question

[phineus892.livejournal.com]

I have a question regarding the use of Russian in informal writings; it relates to spelling. I've been reading lots of Russian language LJ's and noticed that some people spell words not as they should be spelt, though this is done on purpose.
For example, фторник instead of вторник, вотка instead of водка, умнайо instead of умное, etc. etc. Also alot of swear words in particular are written like that, but I won't mention them here obviously.
Mostly I think it's the younger peeps that write like that, but it doesn't make sense to me. It's not like it takes less effort to write the words like that, but it almost looks like they're writing the words how they sound.
So, someone who's in the know please explain.
Much appreciated!! :))

Comments

[wildest.livejournal.com]

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Padonki

[asklepij.livejournal.com]

Here is an article (http://www.nasha.lv/article.php?id=557936&date=23-3-2006) about it.

[alon_68]

But it would take less effort to learn how those words should be spelt :) So, such kind of writing is part of image of a person that doesn't care about such stuff. This style is called падонкаффский, from падонак (properly: подонок - scum), the derogatory name proudly accepted as the self-naming.

[asklepij.livejournal.com]

You can also take a look at this (href) one.

[phineus892.livejournal.com]

Haha, man I haven't gone to the link yet, but I'm laughing already - podonki! LOL good one.

[phineus892.livejournal.com]

Wow, thanks guys! Net speak it pretty interesting stuff. Confusing though, especially for someone who's trying to learn the correct spelling of words....

[nemica.livejournal.com]

Well, I often see 'spoilerz' and 'im ded' (I'm dead) and 'frekin' and 'cuz' in English language part of LJ. I guess it's just for fun and to emphasise meaning of text.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Why doesn't this someone use good literature instead, having in mind that there is no shortage in good literature in Russian expected...

[ex-roumor.livejournal.com]

well some think that you should write as you pronounce and i cant blame them. I dont understand this stupid gap in russian language.

roots of this new style lies in the Fidonet. was some kinda "Кащенко" community there named after the psyhiatric clinic. then it all developed into padonkovski slang you can see at udaff.com. Several years back then it was totally new and amazin stream. they even had some paper books published.

now some people totally deny this new movent. some totally in it. and some uses bits of it.

the way we teach russian at our schools was always very conservative. Russian literature and language brings up like the best and most hardest on this planet >..< you might noticed some remarks like "if you want to know russian you have to be borned in russia...". Its totally not true and totally stupid. Me mate John is from Columbia speaks russian pretty cool but when he came moscow 3 years ago he had too make animal noises to explain a sales lady what sort of meat he would like to buy. Second - my English teacher when i lived in GB was the same way about English language. And a french girl i knew back then was the same way about french language ^_^.
Third - literature we study at school is a dead one. i mean many ears ago already dead writers like Gogol, Pushkin, Lermontov. so called golden and silver ages.
Forth - "Мат" is offitially and strictly banned. You will never hear "Х" and "П" words on radio or tv or PC games. You will never see american film with exact translation of "F" words aswell.

Might be this lack of life and supression resulted in a new style of writing and spelling.

So i hope this new informal writing will make our formal one less conservative ^_^. And i hope some day we will write words as we pronounce them. 'cause its just totally stupid right now.

[watchbot.livejournal.com]

m8s, imho English Inet-language has more inproves than russian's падонкаффский.
Mostly English Inet-language makes text shorter. Meanwhile Russian Inet-language invented to show how cool the writer.
Dunno if you know all the 'shorter' ways of English, but afaik there was a big page with such dictionary.
Some examples - 'nub','m8','liek','g2g','sya', 'borked', 'brb', 'btw', 'bbl', 'ya', 'no1','some1', '4you', etc etc.
This is the common language of MMORPGs nowdays.

[watchbot.livejournal.com]

[quote] Russian literature and language is the best and most hardest on this planet >..< you might noticed some remarks like "if you want to know russian you have to be borned in russia...".[/quote]
agreed.

[quote]i hope some day we will write words as we pronounce them.[/quote]
nevah!

Languages Transmute or Become Extinct

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

I think this is a phenomenon common to all living, vibrant languages.

And, it seems that just about every generation bemoans the "barbarisms" of the youth in terms of their irreverency towards the "dominant standard."

At the same time, if we look at the English of Shakespeare or Chaucer, we recognise that their "English" is in many ways as foreign to us as German.

Hence, we do well to remember that many of today's domininant standards were themselves once obscure dialects.

Languages evolve and change, or die. There are thousands of dead languages on record. In many if not most cases, a likely cause of their death was unwillingness or inability to transmute.

Evidently, none of today's major languages are subject to such a fate.

All being very vibrant and flexible.

Testimony of which is provided by thead intiator's topic introduction regarding non-standard Russian.

[wildest.livejournal.com]

:))
well, that's what this is called:))

[mawunya.livejournal.com]

Well, you're right, that падонки usually use to write words as they sound. But it's only one aspect. This style also consideres writing the words in a way they are not spelled nor sound. This is just for fun, however it becomes difficult to recognize the word, espesially for foreigners. E.g. "кросавчег", normally "красавчик". The meaning of the word can change too. According to previous example normal "красавчик" means handsome, cute; "кросавчег" can be used as commendation (for a good "криатифф" for example^^ ).
As for me, I use it too ^.^ But i don't speak this style, i just use single words.

[phineus892.livejournal.com]

A very valid point my friend, but I'm on the internet for a reason. I'm surrounded by this good literature at home, but I know very little Russian in its informal use, like slang etc. and it's to learn that that I turn to LJ and choose to read Bridget Jones' diary (in Russian ofcourse) rather than Dostoevsky or Tolstoy.
In time I will turn back to the good literature.

[asklepij.livejournal.com]

"And i hope some day we will write words as we pronounce them"

They already tried (http://www.gramma.ru/KOL/?id=4.1&PHPSESSID=) to put it into practice. Thanks God they didn't manage to do it!

[phineus892.livejournal.com]

Yes, but these english spellings could be typos or atleast shorten the original word and thus make it easier/faster to type. This cannot be said for the russian equivalent, if it is an equivalent...

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Good literature in Russian is not limited by 19th century, though. Try Dmitry Bykov, for example. He writes in very good modern Russian, uses a lot of informal speech constructions, and is overall simply a good writer.
http://lib.aldebaran.ru/author/bykov_dmitrii/

[phineus892.livejournal.com]

Thank you, I like the fact that you present a different opinion to most of the other people that have commented so far.
As to having to be born in Russia to know Russian, I haven't heard than in regard to the language but my parents are always telling me that only a Russian can understand Russians and their literature etc. etc. I disagree, since I was born in Russia and I know people who've never even been there and they have a far superior grasp on things Russian, including literature.
And I do agree that language is a thing that should be developed and refined with every generation. Though that's not to say that old forms should be forgotten in their entirety...

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

>i hope some day we will write words as we pronounce them

...and become Byelorussian :)))

[phineus892.livejournal.com]

Yeah I don't neccesarily think it's a bad thing to write like that, coz it does sound cool in some cases. Also I think it can be used to express a certain mood, like for me I associate it with kind of a lazy/laid-back/don't care attitude.

[phineus892.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the recomendation, I shall certainly check it out! Though, ofcourse, being a child of the i-generation I can never give up on the internet. It has proved very helpful so far, particularly since it allows me to interact with Russians such as yourself. Books are a much more passive form of learning.
Thanks though!

[mawunya.livejournal.com]

You know, ab-normative lexis is usually the part of this style.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Well, 9 or 10 years ago, Internet still a novelty, I also went through all possible forms of communication with different people woldwide (forums, chats, ICQ etc.) Not that it lasted long, though. A few weeks or months it's sooo exciting: evrybody luvz deir i-net lingo so much that ur getting confused if its real english or wha. Afer a while, you get tired of it. After a long while, you get sick :)

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

By "падонки" do you mean "подонки", i.e. riffraff?

Just checking, because I did find the former in the dictionary.