дионисический

[paul-s.livejournal.com]

What does the word дионисический mean?

Edit:  Am I right in thinking that стихия can mean chaos?  My dictionary doesn't have it in but I remember seeing it somewhere.  My sentence is this: 'two opposing sources formed the Russian soul: природная, языческая, дионисическая стихия'.  Given the adjectives, chaos seems better than elements.

Comments

[oryx_and_crake]

Possibly "dionysiac", as in "dionysiac mysteries", from Dionysius, a Greek god

[ozozo.livejournal.com]

exactly.

"трагически-оргиастический, жизнеопьяняющий"
(tragically-orgaistic, lifeheady)

it's a very uncommon word, are you reading Nietzsche? :)

[paul-s.livejournal.com]

No, Berdyaev and it's definitely not a barrel of laughs.

[paul-s.livejournal.com]

Ok thanks. I've edited my post for something I forgot - if you have any thoughts on that too it would be good.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_dengerous_/]

You know I'm native Russian but even I don't know what is this. Google either... If you'll find a definition please let me know as well ;)

[ozozo.livejournal.com]

ask yandex :)

трагически-оргиастический, жизнеопьяняющий

[perfect-drugg.livejournal.com]

not popular.. /wrong
Dionisac-like
="Дионисоподобный"
Дионисический- так не говорят и не пишут, скорее всего, имеет место ошибка в написании слова.

[ozozo.livejournal.com]

here (http://slovari.yandex.ru/art.xml?art=postmodernism/pm1/pm1-0311.htm&encpage=postmodernism&mrkp=http%3A//hghltd.yandex.com/yandbtm%3Furl%3Dhttp%253A//encycl.yandex.ru/texts/postmodernism/pm1/pm1-0311.htm%26text%3D%25E6%25E8%25E7%25ED%25E5%25EE%25EF%25FC%25FF%25ED%25FF%25FE%25F9%25E8%25E9%26reqtext%3D%25E6%25E8%25E7%25ED%25E5%25EE%25EF%25FC%25FF%25ED%25FF%25FE%25F9%25E8%25E9%253A%253A1819103916%26%26isu%3D2)

[perfect-drugg.livejournal.com]

I'm see

[szpulka.livejournal.com]

Yes, "дионисийский" -it`s correct!

[oryx_and_crake]

Yes, стихия can indeed mean chaos. Стихия is element or elements (as in the four elements: water, wind etc.), but it also can mean nature and primeval chaos as opposed to man-created order.

[ozozo.livejournal.com]

IMHO, in this case - "elements". in its phylosofical meaning, from greek "stoicheion".

see by BSE:

Стихия

(от греч. stoicheion - первоначало, первооснова, элемент),
1) у древнегреческих философов-материалистов - основные элементы природы (у Эмпедокла - огонь, воздух, вода и земля; в древнекитайской философии - металл, земля, вода, дерево, огонь).
2) Явление, сила природы, обнаруживающиеся как неудержимое начало, стремление (например, буря).
3) В переносном смысле - окружающая привычная среда, обстановка, любимое, хорошо знакомое дело, занятие.

[yurka-spb.livejournal.com]

I would suggest that more correct form of the same word is дионисийский. However I am not sure that my interpretation is correct and дионисический does not have some other flavor.

[wire-shock.livejournal.com]

No, it must be just an obsolete variant. Today's Russian is sometimes quite different from Berdyaev's...

[wire-shock.livejournal.com]

I guess here стихия does not mean exactly or exclusively chaos because Berdyaev calls it one of the constituents of the Russian soul. It's closer to 'nature', or 'source' (the word that you used before). But chaos is not far from that anyway.

As I don't know philosophy, I still wonder if there's any one British philosopher who would describe the British (Celtic, Anglo-Saxon, you name it) soul as being drastically different from the [other nation]'s soul. I wonder if that makes sense... I'm Russian, and I don't feel as different from a European as it's sometimes believed.

[paul-s.livejournal.com]

I should really have given the rest of the sentence - I don't know if it makes a difference but it'll show you my thinking. 'two opposing sources formed the Russian soul: природная, языческая, дионисическая стихия и аскетически-монашеское православие.' The reason I thought it meant chaos was because of the contrast to the order of Orthodoxy

[paul-s.livejournal.com]

Oh, as for the other bit, I don't really know because I don't study philisophy either but I'd agree on not feeling much different from other Europeans. We haven't got through much of Berdyaev and it does strike me as odd.

[wire-shock.livejournal.com]

This idea infiltrated Russian culture - especially pop culture, rather oddly. "The mysterious Russian soul" is an expression known to everyone here. If there's anything mysterious about the Russian soul it must be this popular myth itself!
I believe the Christian - pagan conflict is typical of every European culture anyway. Well, whatever...

[annaaustria.livejournal.com]

I agree that "стихия" in this context is closer to "nature", and "chaos" is just one sign of it. The word "стихия" can be used instead of "буря", i.e. "storm" - something chaotic and strong, and irresistible.

[pankratiev.livejournal.com]

May be the following common philosophic construction will clear the situation and help you to look into the matter. There is famous opposition "аполлоническое vs дионисийское" where "а" is affiliated to Reason, Intellect and "д" to smth of Ecstasy, orgiastic and mysterious (derivated from greek mysteria) principle="начало". Sure, Berdyaev meant this opposing.

[definite.livejournal.com]

I think that "chaos" in this context is very close to "стихия", especially in the meaning of "the confused unorganized state of primordial matter before the creation of distinct forms", according to Webster's definition. Something like "chaotic nature". And "principle" ("начало", as suggested above) is, in my opinion, the best translation.

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

дионисический - As someone mentioned, this does sound like a Nietzschean idea and is evidently derived from the Greek god, Dionysius.

This deity becomes Bacchus in Roman mythology. You'll probably recognise the English word "bacchanal" in there, which means wild, orgy-like revelry.

According to Nietzshe, Dionysius/Bacchus is the god-force of unbound creativity (irrationalism, emotionality) that is fountainhead at which civilisation is created and renewed.

As applied to Russia, I take "дионисический" to refer to the "tendency of Russia to define herself as other-than-Western", i.e. embodying a particular gift of creativity that is inaccessible to the Western mind, by reason of the West's over-reliance on rationality to find answers and consequent lack of insight into metaphysical processes.

This sentiment is, for example, famously immortalised in the verse of Ф.Тютчев:

"В Россию можно только верить" - One can only believe in Russia.

- "to believe", of course, is an irrational act, religious in nature. Thus Russia is seen as a mysterious quasi-religious entity defying rational comprehension, to which one can affirm fidelity only as an act of faith, but not through scientific induction.
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