To transliterate or not to transliterate?

[fox-c.livejournal.com]

At one point I think someone taught me that when writing in Russian, if there are certain words (like brand names or acronyms) in English that don't exist in Russian, we shouldn't transliterate them into Cyrillic.

For example, if I were talking about how to do something in PhotoShop I would leave the word PhotoShop in English characters(i.e. How do you do that in PhotoShop? Kак ето cделано на PhotoShop?). Is this wrong? Is it better or more correct to transliterate instead (Фотошоп)?

Comments

[anohin.livejournal.com]

Well, it is usual to transliterate brand-names in common and privat writings, but in official documents we mainly use non-transliterated names.

[alamar.livejournal.com]

Everyone I know say and write фотошоп :)

[anohin.livejournal.com]

say фотошоп :)

[alamar.livejournal.com]

write фотожаба :))

[alon_68]

или фотожопа! :))

forgot somethin'

[anohin.livejournal.com]

So it is normal to say "Как это сделано в фотошопе?", but it's better to say "Дизайнер должен знать все возможности пакета PhotoShop".

[alon_68]

There is no common rule. Quite the contrary, in the Soviet time they used to transliterate almost all names, e.g. Дженерал моторс, Дженерал электрик, Би-би-си, Нью-Йорк Таймс and even Ю.Эс. Ньюс энд Уорлд рипорт. Now, there are indeed more cases when names like Microsoft, C++, Rolling Stones etc are kept in English, but doubtly common words like PhotoShop. It's not really wrong but it displays the author as a foreigner rather then Russian one. It's better to be transliterated as фотошоп.

[msk01.livejournal.com]

It'll be better if you don't transliterate it. Some brand names are transliterated officially, like "Макдональдс", "Пентагон", etc. But if you never read this in official sources, don't do it by youself, leave the word in English. You may use "фотошоп" in unofficial discussions, like your blog or some communities. But if you write an article to newspaper, it'll be rude.

And, the correct phrase is "Как вы делаете это с помощью Photoshop?"

[alamar.livejournal.com]

And the even more correct phrase would be "Как это делается с помощью PhotoShop?"
And that is still not perfect.

[serpent-849.livejournal.com]

I'd say this as "Как это сделать с помощью Photoshop?"

[jillain.livejournal.com]

Как это сделано в фотошопе

[fox-c.livejournal.com]

Ah thanks. I knew I was going to get something wrong.

[natalya-l.livejournal.com]

I would use Photoshop instead of Фотошоп only if to write official resume, both in English or Russian. I mean if you have to name the list of programms you are working in you better say it is English.
Like:

Power Point, Excel, Corel Photo Paint, ... - looks OK
Пауэр Пойнт, Ексель, Корел Фото Пэйнт, ... - looks a bit stupid IMHO.

[alon_68]

Ёксель!

[natalya-l.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the Excel word looks even more stupid than others... To translate it correctly I would do it like "Экссэль", but the man writing it this way would look VERY suspecious to me! :-))

[mytza.livejournal.com]

I understand "fotozhopa" :))) but what is "yoksel"... or "yoksel-moksel"?

[alon_68]

Nothing, simply the starting "ё" reminds us something :)
Like ёкэлэмэнэ, ё-моё, ёжкин кот etc.

Off: Sorry, what's the level of your Russian? Is it your mother tongue, or somehow learned?

[mytza.livejournal.com]

I'm learning it, but not in school - listening to Russian music and surfing through LJ diaries has proved very useful until now. This explains why I mentioned "(foto)zhopa", izvinite menya za mat :))

[megilla.livejournal.com]

жопа - is not hard obscene, is not мат. it is obscene, but wide used word in common speech.

[mytza.livejournal.com]

Thanks for nuancing! I thought that the notion of мат covers even such light slang.

[megilla.livejournal.com]

strictly speaking, мат is based on few words, most of which have turkic genesis. they are:
хуй - dick, prick
пизда, манда - female genitals, cunt
the root 'еб' - means sexual act, lots verbs and nouns include this
блядь - whore, prostitute
мудя - male genitals upon the hole
мудак - owner of мудя
but I don't know english words with the same degree of obscene, all mentioned english translaions have very soft obscene tint

I've read very thorugh article on russian мат in Wikipedia with lots of examples, words forms, genesis and meaning in russian language and life.

[mytza.livejournal.com]

I just found the article you refer to. Thanks a lot - now many things become clear for me (and yes, I know that English equivalents are softer :))
Still, there's a family of words that I can't understand yet:
fig
ofigitelnyi
pofigist
Can you tell me something about that, please?

[megilla.livejournal.com]

Well, ФИГ, usually replases "хуй" ин corresponding words to make them speakable, printable in wide range of literature. The word 'фига' itself means the finger combination wich looks like fist but with thumb between forefinger and middle finger.


I've found in Lingvo vocabulary that there are words 'fig', 'fico' in english and they mean the same. :)
Another word is "шиш".

The meaning of words from your exaples are:

fig (in speach) - rejection of someones request
ofigitelnyi - staggering, stunning
pofigist - indifferent man

there is also "фиговое дерево" - fig-tree, corresspongind to Lingvo, I also think that it is sicamore, but I can be wrong - not strong in botany :)

[mytza.livejournal.com]

That means I have guessed well about "pofigist"... thank you!

Here's what Multitran produces for the English "fig" :)))
http://www.multitran.ru/c/m.exe?HL=2&L1=1&L2=2&EXT=0&s=fig

And you're right about the name of that gesture :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesture#Fig_sign

[definite.livejournal.com]

"most of which have turkic genesis"

Actually, none of them has turkic genesis, it's a common mistake of old. All these words have well proven Slavic / Indo-European origin. :)

[alamar.livejournal.com]

Поверпойнт sounds fine :)

Ворд is commonly used :)

[natalya-l.livejournal.com]

Поверпойнт DOESN'T sound fine! :-)) It is wierd.
Ворд is OK, true.
And how about Майкрософт Аксцес? Виндоус Медиа? Хьюлетт Паккард? Диджитал Вьювер? Квик Тайм Пикча Вьювер? (looking at the list of programms on my PC...)

[fox-c.livejournal.com]

See, that's why I raised the point. Looking at those in Russian transliteration makes my eyes itch.

[alamar.livejournal.com]

Still people write поверпойнт and say пауэрпойнт or поверпойнт :) Because we have to spell it somehow.

Эксесс. Виндоус медиа, that's right. Хьюлетт Паккард - that's just surnames, so rules for surnames apply and you don't have much to discuss here. I don't know what digital viewer is. Квик тайм, but noone uses quick time pirture viewer, everyone use эй-си-ди-си or инфран-вью.

Of course, in articles and such you're better use original names if unsure.

[inkittenus.livejournal.com]

Эксесс sounds like something happening to toddlers sometimes... Or even babies.

[alamar.livejournal.com]

Noone promised these will sound pleasant :)

[firstlemonpie.livejournal.com]

well, in this particular, case i think, you can use either PhotoShop or Фотошоп.

[antalika.livejournal.com]

brand names - PhotoShop=PhotoShop
Nike = Nike
names - Mary = Мэри
London = Лондон

[jktue.livejournal.com]

Depends on a word.
Formally you MUST translate (not transliterate) brands, names, place-name etc. Ford is Форд, IBM is Ай Би Эм. Surely, sometimes it is not so apparent. Iwo Jima is "иводзима", not "иво джима" or "ива дзима". Hyindai is "Хёнде".

If brand is relatively new, i.e. it did nоt exist 20 years ago, to transliterate or not to trasliterate that is the quaestion ))) Actually less English - better Russian ))).

Concerning PhotoShop, you'd better translate PhotoShop as far as "Фотошоп" sounds (and looks) very Russian ))

[inkittenus.livejournal.com]

Both Iwo Jima and Hyindai are transliterate from original language. Been it Japan or Chinese, it has it's own rules of transliteration.

[onodera.livejournal.com]

The rule of thumb is: if the name of a program can be easily transliterated (Фотошоп, Акробат, Аксесс), you can happily do so in colloquial writing.
Writing anything more formal (CVs, press releases) you should use original names.
Of course, everything is transliterated (mercilessly) in techie lingo, so if you happen to have Russian friends with IT jobs, they'll sound to you like Irish Travelers in The Snatch.

[anton-y-k.livejournal.com]

Photoshop is very poopular among russian users (in fact every advanced user has it on his PC) we even have verb "фотошопить". So feel free using "Фотошоп".