Shortened spellings

[philena.livejournal.com]

I have a question about variations in spelling I've seen. One is of the form of writing an -ие ending as -ье. For example, I've seen достояние written as достоянье. Likewise in declensions, I always thought that the instrumental of, (say, for example) достояние would be достоянием, but I've seen it written as достояньем. These spellings aren't in the dictionary I use. Is it simply an older variation, the way in older English texts you'll see things like deceiv'd or wing'd?

Likewise, for comparatives I've seen both -ee endings and -ей endings. I understand that in rapid speech they would be pronounced the same, but is the second spelling standard in some conditions, or simply a kind of reflection of the pronunciation? If so, when, and if not, how common is it?

Comments

[oryx_and_crake]

достояние vs. достоянье
The second is more often seen in poetry where you sometimes need to skip a syllable to preserve metre. Otherwise, I think the first is used more often in everyday speech.

as to -ee and -ей - I think you meant -ею and -ей because these two are endings of feminine instrumental (синею полосою vs. синей полосой). Again, the first is slightly archaic and poetical and the second is used in everyday speech.

[philena.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

As for the second point, no, I do mean comparatives. As in, I've seen something like красивее and красивей, both seeming to mean "more beautiful," or быстрее and быстрей, both seeming to mean "faster."

[oryx_and_crake]

Oh, I see. I think that быстрее and быстрей are more or less equivalent in usage.

[irvin-markoni.livejournal.com]

Быстрее и быстрей одинаково часто употребляются - в этом я вас уверяю %))
Быстрей подразумевается более как командное слово. Например" Сделай это быстрей!". Как приказ, повелительное наклонениею "Сделай это быстрее" - более вежливо, еквивалентно "you SHOULD" or "would you like to do it faster?"

[oryx_and_crake]

Please note that the working language of this community is English.

[kragoth.livejournal.com]

How do you know if the ending would be -ю for feminine singular instrumental nouns? I've seen it in a few cases, I don't know if it's often. But I've also have a hard time telling when to use е/и for dative singular femine nouns. Is there a rule? And is the "e" stressed to sound like a "и"?

[oryx_and_crake]

It is, as I said above, a matter of your choice - you can say сестрой or сестрою, the latter is a little bit archaic though. As to dative singular feminine e/и, there should be declension tables - as soon as you determine to which declension your noun belongs, you should have no problem. I think that the general rule (there may be some exceptions though) is: if in nominative case it ends with -a or -я , it will have -e in dative, if it ends with -ь, it will have -и in dative.

Examples:
мама - маме
тетя - тете
ночь - ночи

[philena.livejournal.com]

What if it ends -ия? For example, would I say относиться к историе? That looks thoroughly wrong. For some reason I always thought that locative (and maybe dative) for -иe, -ия words was -ии.

[oryx_and_crake]

Oh, thanks, I knew I have missed something; that's an entirely separate case. Of course, история will be истории in dative.

[kragoth.livejournal.com]

Thanks. :-)

[oryx_and_crake]

P.S. as philena have noted, feminine nouns ending with -ия will have -ии in dative.

[khathi.livejournal.com]

Basically, in both cases "-ие/-ее" is normative spelling, however "-ье/-йе" is usually also allowed. And I believe you're right when you regard is as obsolete, or, more correct, old-fashioned. It's significantly more colloquial.

[irvin-markoni.livejournal.com]

Достоянье is more vintage, more stylish. Is used in different poems or historical (or just old) novels.
Now we speak достоянье rarely, just like a joke in some cases...

[divine-1987.livejournal.com]

Concerning comperatives. I know for sure that "-ей" is more colloquial than "-ее". So it would be safer for u to write "-ee", but in everyday life u can use both of them, they are interchangeable.

ие-ье

[genegreen.livejournal.com]

For most nouns "ье" is just an old form for "ие".

But sometimes "ие" may mean some process for the noun. E.g. "варенье" - jam, "варение" - boiling; "рожденье" - birth, "рождение" - the process of birth.