question

[branwen.livejournal.com]

Okay, so I have some nice Russian tapes I ordered off ebay. They break down words into parts as to learn how to pronounce them better, and they explain things about the words and how/why they are used. One thing I came across, though, was the use of Russian titles "Mr." and "Mrs./Ms." as "Господин" and "Госпожа". My boyfriend, Lev, (who is from Uzbekistan, and speaks Russian--not Uzbek) says that this is ridiculous, and no one uses these words. His parents were also confused by these, and say they are not used. They said that Russians may call each other "товарищ" if they used a title at all, but never "Господин" or "Госпожа".
Any Russians out there with clarification? I would like to see what you all have to say, and get into a deeper discussion on this with my boyfriend and his family.
On another hand, Lev's cousin didn't think these titles were that strange, but still not too common in use.

Comments

[soidisantfille.livejournal.com]

I came across this problem in my first-year Russian textbook, too. My teacher told us that Господин and Госпожa are very, very rarely used, which makes we wonder: why include it in basic Russian vocabulary?

[branwen.livejournal.com]

Yes, it does seem very misleading. Maybe they just want to teach us wrong so we'll stick out like sore thumbs even more than we would with our horrid accents, so they can have more fun laughing at us? ;p

[zloizloi.livejournal.com]

Well, these words were in common use before 1917, and you can see them pretty often in Russian books by classic authors

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

How long ago did your teacher leave the Soviet Union? :)) Yes, those words weren't used between 1918 and 1991, but it's quite OK to use it now (though they're still quite formal - business, banking, etc.)

[aldanur.livejournal.com]

It depends. I know pretty many people for whom господин/госпожа are natural. Though some people prefer товарищ, гражданин and so on. Anyway, господин is a good choice if you want to be extremely polite.

[borr.livejournal.com]

"Господин" and "Госпожа" is absolutely normal titles, but quite official or formal. If you address it to stranger, he could be even offended by it, since decided that you are sneering at him. After socialist revolution in Russia those titles were definitely negative, they said "Господа - в Париже", meaning the emigrants who leave Russia.

Of cource, for old people, these titles sound strange even today.

"Товарищ" (Comrade) was used in Soviet time, novadays it is rare.
Alternatively could be used "Гражданин" - also formal, but neutral, or even "Молодой человек", "Мужчина", "Девушка", "Женщина" - normal to call somebody in bus, at street, etc.
Sometimes you can hear title "Уважаемый"

[branwen.livejournal.com]

Wow, if you yelled out "Woman!" to someone, it would be an insult here. But "Ma'am", which I have always disliked greatly, is common...*sigh*

[nemica.livejournal.com]

I prefer to use "дама" or "девушка" instead of ugly and low-educated "женщина".

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Well, there's some balance. Yes, there still are some who would go with that ridiculous 1920s' "все господа - в Париже (all lords are now in Paris [emigration])," but there's also a more or less equal amount of those who would go with "тамбовский волк тебе товарищ" (literally, a wolf from Tambov [steppe] is your comrade -- just don't ask me what exactly this meant :))) if being addressed the Soviet way.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Your expert seem to leave the ex-U.S.S.R long, long ago :) Господин and госпожа are OK now, though still quite formal and not widely used (mostly in Big Business environment, banking, etc.)

The problem is that товарищ, being the way the Communists addressed each other, was abandoned as a common salutation after 1991; господин/госпожа still sounds too formal; гражданин (citizen) is how the policemen address the people in the streets; and there is no other word that could be used as a common title! So there is a lack of a common word like Mr./Mrs., and people use all sorts of strange words to address each other. For example, it is quite possible(especially in Southern parts of Russia) to hear people in the street addressing each other like "мужчина, скажите, как пройти к вокзалу?" (male one, how can I get to the train station? :))))))))))))

[apollotiger.livejournal.com]

Actually, using "man" as an address sounds distinctly Californian. ;)

[yers.livejournal.com]

Well there's also the fact that the title+surname form of address had been borrowed from western cultures, and never completely supplanted the native form which is name+patronymic. On the other hand, the words сударь/сударыня have faded away so there's a kind of vacuum where the right form for politely addressing a stranger should be. I'm all for bringing back сударь/сударыня, but I realise it doesn't quite fit into the mental set of the present-day Russian...

[-alex-dee-.livejournal.com]

>"Господин" and "Госпожа"
гражданин/гражданка :))

[ex-ex-mmnd9.livejournal.com]

ridiculous, right
they are used in case of highly official situations. like private parties or hrrrr.... business presentations. but they tend to evade the terms. just first name and family name of the speaker
cuz these words are regarded as almost curse by the majority of the population. in the framework of the state of economy throughout Russia.
add "господа все в париже" (c) bulgakov and you'll get the whole scene.
but they exist.
товарищ - этпесдец. noone uses that. we're not more in the party :)

don't use both in Russian. but in English mr and mrs - it's ok.

You were warned!

[kav2k.livejournal.com]

Be a little more careful with your Russian! wolk_off is out there ;)

[belacane.livejournal.com]

I'm not a russian citizan, but i live in moscow.

On the streets I've most often heard девушка for a young woman and молодой человек for a young man. An older man or woman will be мужчина and женщина respectively. For older women I've heard старуха or бабулья.

As far as I know, there isn't really a universal Mr. or Mrs. in russian.
But I could be wrong.

[kav2k.livejournal.com]

It's "бабуля"

[borr.livejournal.com]

"Старуха" is rude. Бабушка is better

[kav2k.livejournal.com]

Господин(госпожа) - more adequate translation will be "master", maybe "lord". It originates from feudal times, and now no one would normally refer to someone as his master. So that's why it's not commonly used now, but this wordd is perfectly normal.
You know, in Russian such prefixes as Mr., Mrs., Ms. are simply not used in common speech, so there are no better equivalents. We simply call, introduce ourselves with our "bare" names.
In formal speech we usually use "гражданин"/"гражданка" (literally "citizen"), less often "товарищ" (literally "comrade", widely used in Soviet past, to emphasize the equality of all Soviet people).

[branwen.livejournal.com]

I guess that if I want to speak to someone who's name I do not know, I will go up to them and say "извините", then introduce myself, and hope they'll introduce themselves...

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Note that Russian language has an additional mean to address each other very poltely - even without titles like Mr./Mrs.: it's the use of patronymic along with the first name. You never call your teacher "госпожа Иванова," or "товарищ Иванова," or whatever: you call her simply Анна Петровна (dropping the last name is mandatory,) and it's very polite, and everybody's happy :)

[solito.livejournal.com]

Let me add my penny - I think that in the cities that accepted the western style of life (i.e. Moscow, St. Petersburg, some others) it is just fine to use Господин and Госпожа - though I would agree these ways of addressing are rather formal. In other places (and apparently your counterparts are from there) it will be really ridiculous and strange. Some people will think you are mocking. But to understand the difference in the lifestyle one needs just to go there and see. It's like two worlds.

Don't forget about барышня!

[temcat.livejournal.com]

BTW, an elegant way to address a young lady is барышня.

Re: Don't forget about барышня!

[onodera.livejournal.com]

I've always thought it's a way to adress a female clerk.

[ducking.livejournal.com]

You should also note that, among the South Caucasian emigres (in Moscow, at least), a common way of addressing anyone being male of sex is "брат" (brother). To me, that's a bit of an insult. Not because of my racist prejudices (I have none) - I just don't feel comfortable being called "brother" by a stranger.

[gateya.livejournal.com]

You may call woman as "Сударыня" and man as "Сударь"; and to young girl - "барышня, девушка"; to young man - "молодой человек". Also you can use none of gender adressing, for example "Извините.... ". "Господин" & "госпожа", IMHO, point on the stranger's another social position . As for me, I prefer to be equal with all stranger. But if you call an old man/woman, you may say "бабушка, дедушка.." (but no бабка, дед).

[anatoli-t.livejournal.com]

The words господин, госпожа (Mr, Mrs) are taking over in official use but not in the army. Some people still feel awkward using those and even use incorrectly, I don't think you can use these words without a surname or title (господин Петров, господин президент but not господин! ). Сударь, сударыня и барышня (sir, madam, miss) are probably lost for ever and will never be used again seriously, unless serious efforts are take to revive them. You'll find them in the pre-revolution literature, though.

барышня (miss) was always used without a surname as a form of address but there was no word for "Miss" + surname. In pre-revolution Russia French word мадмуазель (mademoiselle) was often used.

I feel sorry for some of the words we lost!

People use awkward девушка! молодой человек! to people no longer young because they don't know how to address, they may not want to use "товарищ" for political reasons, сударь, сударыня и барышня sound too obsolete, old-fashioned.

Дамы и господа (ladies and gentlemen) is used to address a big public but people who vote for communists (quite a few still) feel this a bit offensive. I noticed, politicians feel compelled to say something neutral - "friends" to please all sides.

Sorry for the long post. I hpe you find this informative.

see also (in Russian):
http://www.5ka.ru/105/1781/1.html