(no subject)

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

Мне кажется что, когда слишком долго не "постовую," я "постовую" больше. < Does this sentence make sense? (What's "to post" in Russian?)

How old does something have to be in order to be considered древнерусский?

How does one say "In the 90s?" I.e. "People had no fashion sense in the 90s... nor in the 1890s."

And the following is a whole barage of questions on songs and grammar in songs. I got the lyrics both from a friend and from online, so that's why I ask occasionally what are the missing lines.


This line: Что ж им было делать, бедным, если is not in the song. It sounds more like Как же, быть и ещё or something like that… would you happen to know what it says?

“Океан казался им рекой” does a word take the instrumental with казаться?

«Но не видно у реки той края» what exactly is той?
”На исходе лошадиных сил” = From the outcome of the horses’ strength?

«А всё-таки мне жаль их – рыжих, не увидевших земли» - Anyways, I’m sorry for those, the red/horses, not being seen from Earth? (sounds awkward…)



For Ты да я, да мы с тобой, I’ve only one question. To live в одиночку means to live in solitude? Or live alone?



“нет, все чего хочу я, тенью на твоём мелькнув пути, несколько шагов пройти” – No, everything that I want, with a shadow and… pfft. I’m completely lost.

«Пройти, оставив лёгкие следы» - Cross, having stopped the simple footsteps?

What does По краешку mean? (was it originally краешок?)

“пусть и горькою разлука” what case is that горький in?

And again, there’s a stanza missing. И всё ... прошу я... вот и всё что нужно мне. Something like that… care to fill in the blanks?

Comments

[nemica.livejournal.com]

"In the 90s" - В девяностых. В восьмидесятых. В восьмидесятых все одевались просто ужасно. :)

«А всё-таки мне жаль их – рыжих, не увидевших земли» - Anyways, I’m sorry for those, the red/horses that did not reach shore.

край - краешек - like small or thin edge.

горький is just like in English, it can mean bitter methaphorically.

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

I meant горькою. I've never seen that declension before.

[nemica.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see. it's just the same as будет горькой разлука. Maybe a little more poetically or to make right rythm. :)

Compare:
- весенней порой, весеннею порою
- шумной толпой, шумною толпою

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Sorry I had to answer twice since I've made a few typos:)

It's a poetic, old-fashioned form of горькой (instrumental from горькая, feminine adjective for "bitter".)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Hey. Don't misguide people:)
В девяностые все одевались просто ужасно. BUT: Как ужасна эта одежда девяностых!

[halevi.livejournal.com]

> Мне кажется что, когда слишком долго не "постовую," я "постовую" больше.
> Does this sentence make sense? (What's "to post" in Russian?)

There is no literary Russian word for "to post". In Internet is often used "постить" where "О" is accented.
But in the case above the best choice would be "пишу": "Когда я долго не пишу, я пишу больше."

> How old does something have to be in order to be considered древнерусский?

IMHO, "древнерусский" is commonly related to something before the reign of the great duke Iohann I (Calita), i. e. before XIII century. But it is my opinion only.

> How does one say "In the 90s?" I.e. "People had no fashion sense in the 90s... nor in the
> 1890s."

In the 90s --- "в 90-х годах" (в девяностых годах)
In the 1890s --- "в 90-х годах XIX века" (в девяностых годах девятнадцатого века)

> “Океан казался им рекой” does a word take the instrumental with казаться?

Yes. "Казался рекой" is the Russian for "seemed to be a river"

> «Но не видно у реки той края» what exactly is той?

It means: "Ocean seemed them to be a river, but one cannot see a bord of the river".
In this case Russian "той" is almost exact equivalent of English "the". But in this case only!

> «А всё-таки мне жаль их – рыжих, не увидевших земли» - Anyways, I’m sorry for
> those, the red/horses, not being seen from Earth? (sounds awkward…)

Russian "рыжий" is also a figural for "strange". E.g. there is a phrase "искать рыжих", which means "to look for anybody for pushing a responsibility about the error".


> For Ты да я, да мы с тобой, I’ve only one question. To live в одиночку means to live
> in solitude? Or live alone?

Alone is more similar.

> What does По краешку mean? (was it originally краешок?)

"Краешек". It is diminutive for "край" (as "border", NOT as "district").

> “пусть и горькою разлука” what case is that горький in?

It is instrumental. Both "горькой" and "горькою" are good.

[dimon37.livejournal.com]

to post- since there is no standardized translation, generally accepted slang is "постать" or "постить"

древнерусский - I would say before 15th century.

in the 90s - в девяностых (годах)

the line is

как же быть и что же делать если
Нету мест на лодках и плотах?

means "what to do if
there is no space (for horses) on boats and rafts?"

казаться does take instrumental.

той - that (river)
На исходе лошадиных сил - at the end of horses strength. на исходе is almost idiom-like phrase, means at the end of.

А всё-таки мне жаль их – рыжих, не увидевших земли - anyways, I am sorry for them - reds who did not (live to) see the land.

To live в одиночку means to live be oneself, in solitude.

“нет, все чего хочу я, тенью на твоём мелькнув пути, несколько шагов пройти” - no, all that I want is, having flashed like a shadow along your way, walk a few steps (I guess, along with you is assumed)

Пройти, оставив лёгкие следы - walk by/through, leaving light footprints.

по краешку - along the edge - краешек - край

[solito.livejournal.com]

постать????????

hmm

[ex-novia.livejournal.com]

I can only help you with some of this:

«А всё-таки мне жаль их – рыжих, не увидевших земли» - Anyways, I’m sorry for those, the red/horses, not being seen from Earth? (sounds awkward…) - you are almost there: it is not "seen fro the earth" but red/horses, which haven't had a chance of seeing the earth/the world
( I am not familiar with the songs, so I can't sy whether it's earth or world there..)

To live в одиночку means to live in solitude? Or live alone?
It can be one or the other; it can also be both.

“нет, все чего хочу я, тенью на твоём мелькнув пути, несколько шагов пройти” – No, everything that I want, with a shadow and… pfft. I’m completely lost.
ok. I can't translate word for word, but here's what it means: All I want is to appear as a shadow on your way, to walk with you a few steps.
very humble:)

«Пройти, оставив лёгкие следы» - Cross, having stopped the simple footsteps? :) It's cross (or walk), having left light footprints.

P.S: I think that a link to the complete lyrics of the songs would help :P

[temcat.livejournal.com]

"to post" -- I think it will be "писать" :-)

In the 90s -- "в девяностых (годах)". In the 1890s -- "в девяностых годах девятнадцатого века".

"Что ж им было делать, бедным, если" -- What (else) did the poor [whoever was "они"] have to do, when... (not sure if it sounds right in English... this is the tough one)

does a word take the instrumental with казаться? Yes, instrumental and only instrumental.

«Но не видно у реки той края» what exactly is той? Той = that. Реки той = той реки.

”На исходе лошадиных сил” = When the horse was almost exhausted

в одиночку means alone

“нет, все чего хочу я, тенью на твоём мелькнув пути, несколько шагов пройти” -- No, all I want is to walk a few steps flashing as a shadow on your way -- well, the translation actually sucks big time, but you got the point...

«Пройти, оставив лёгкие следы» - Cross leaving light footprints

По краешку -- along the edge. Краешек is a diminutive from край.

“пусть и горькою разлука” what case is that горький in? It's instrumental. The verb будет is omitted before разлука.

[ilia-yasny.livejournal.com]

'Постовать' definitely doesn't exist. Some people use 'постить', 'постил', 'запостил' and you could say 'пощу' (like 'грустить - грущу'), but this sounds VERY awkward. The better option would be 'пишу в ЖЖ'.

How old does something have to be in order to be considered древнерусский?

I'd say, before 1000, that is before christianity, writing and existance of state.

«Пройти, оставив лёгкие следы» - Cross, having stopped the simple footsteps?

To pass by, having left the light footsteps
“нет, все чего хочу я, тенью на твоём мелькнув пути, несколько шагов пройти” – No, everything that I want, with a shadow and… pfft. I’m completely lost.

No, everything that I want is to walk some steps having flitted on your way like a shadow

«Но не видно у реки той края» what exactly is той?

The border of that river

«А всё-таки мне жаль их – рыжих, не увидевших земли» - Anyways, I’m sorry for those, the red/horses, not being seen from Earth? (sounds awkward…)

the sense is that "Horses which did not see the earth (the boarder of the ocean"

Hope that helps you.

This is very touching song.
I remember it being sang by my friend, when we were sitting one night near the fire in the wood, and I felt a lump coming to my throat...

Ask more! :)

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

Oh don't worry, just as I'm done tinkering with a couple of other songs, I'll post again. :)

Em... here's another one. In "не увидевших земли," is земли in the genetive because they don't see ANY land?

[temcat.livejournal.com]

I think here it means the same as "не увидевших землЮ".

[ilia-yasny.livejournal.com]

May be I'm not sure. I don't know exact rule, sometimes the accusative and the genetive are used interchangeably for verbs like видеть, увидеть, and sometimes it's natural to use only one form. I hope that someone who knows theory helps you.

[ex-ex-zhuzh.livejournal.com]

s земли in the genetive because they don't see ANY land?

No, it's because of the negation. Видеть землю, не видеть (той, этой, никакой) земли. Не видеть землю is colloquial (IMHO).

[ekeme-ndiba.livejournal.com]

This issue (negation + transitive verb + genitive/accusative) has some subtle nuances: native speakers usually never think of them, while it's hard to describe them to the foreigner. In fact, both forms are correct. Here are the guidelines suggested by Dietmar Rosenthal in his book "Secrets of Stylistics": (http://lebed.h1.ru/art3227.htm)

1. Genitive emphasizes negation. Usually used with:
a) sentences containing "ни" patricle or adverb with "ни-" prefix (не терял ни бодрости, ни надежды);
b) nouns describing part of something (не купил к чаю баранок);
c) abstract nouns (не теряет времени, не испытывает желания, не упускает случая, не принимает участия).

2. Accusative reduces negation and it's used primarily:
a) when talking about something definite, where you'd use "the" in English (эту книгу я не возьму
b) with proper names (cвою Тамару не брани);
c) with double negation (женщина не может не понять музыку);
d) with constructions like "не" + auxiliary verb + infinitive (не смог приобрести новый словарь, не успел прочитать эту книгу, не хочет надеть старый костюм).

3. In all other cases, genitive sounds more bookish while accusative is either colloquial or neutral.

[funny-uncle.livejournal.com]

Песня "Лошади в океане" Виктора Берковского.

Occasionally I discovered for me this author. And it really impressed me. I suggest you read lyrics of some other his songs.
And pay attention the whole layer or russian music called "Бардовская песня". I think one will learn more from it than from contemporary popular songs.

By the way,

[shalapanova.livejournal.com]

The poetry for the song was written by B. Slutsky.

Victor Berkovsky is a very good singer and composer, but he writes some poetry rarely, AFAIK.

[ex-ex-zhuzh.livejournal.com]

I just want to add that в тысяча восемьсот девяностых is also quite acceptable, especially in that sort of phrase ("В 90-х годах люди не умели одеваться… и в 1890-х тоже").

[ex-ex-zhuzh.livejournal.com]

Oh, and keep the good work. Так держать!

[ijona-tihaja.livejournal.com]

Древнерусский is related to the period before XVII century (and including XVII century). At least, it's true for the древнерусский язык

[madrumos.livejournal.com]

Hey, I'd just like to point out something. I could see what you were going for in your постовую thing, i.e. that -овать verbs are generally good for making words Russian. To this end, I'd like to mention that even if this was a real word, the ова drops out, so it'd be постую постуешь etc. not постовую.
Maybe I'm off the mark here, just thought I'd mention it.

[constpd.livejournal.com]

The word “постовать” is actually equal to “соблюдать пост” — “to keep the fast”. But I doubt if it has any sense in that context...

[ilia-yasny.livejournal.com]

No, there is no such word. "Соблюдать пост" is equal to "постИться"

[constpd.livejournal.com]

http://encycl.yandex.ru/cgi-bin/art.pl?art=dal/dal/03147/53500.htm&encpage=dal&mrkp=/yandbtm7%3Fq%3D1360552928%26p%3D0%26g%3D0%26d%3D0%26ag%3Denc_abc%26tg%3D1%26p0%3D0%26q0%3D2009362896%26d0%3D0%26script%3D/yandpage%253F

[ilia-yasny.livejournal.com]

Mind that this is dialectical, not of common use