Вопрос про знаки ударения

[kasak.livejournal.com]

I have a question regarding accent marks in printed Russian. I know that no newspaper or novel (aside from those directed at learners) will be printed with accent marks on words, but dictionaries and textbooks for learning the Russian language will. Is there any way, or any font that anyone knows of, that will allow me to type out Russian with accents on words?

I've tried using accented Roman characters for the a, o, e, and у, but it's impossible to convincingly do so with я, ю, и, and ы (ё is a moot point, since it's always accented).

Anyone else encountered this problem and figured out a satisfactory answer, or know how I can get a font that has these Russian vowels with accent marks?

Also, I have a side question, regarding the usage of "быть" in the present tense (есмь, еси, есть, есмы, есте, суть); when exactly did these words get dropped from everyday use? Was it recent, or is it older than a hundred years in the making? Was there any sort of context for how these forms were dropped from formal language? Just curious.

Comments

[constpd.livejournal.com]

In fact, you are a little wrong about the native Russian newspapers and books. The rules require to indicate stress when the word has an omograph with different stress and if these words can be mixed up in that situation. For example, if you meet the word “мóлодец” in a modern newspaper or a book that doesn't have to do anything with ancient Slavs or Russian fairy-tales, this word will always have stress. Also, the words like “бóльшим” (comp. adj., M., I. c.) against “большим” (the stress on the last syllable is implied) will also have stress.
Considering the fonts, as far as I know there are no Russian fonts with stresses. I think that they just type something like ’и and then kern the pair down.

[kasak.livejournal.com]

Ah, this I had no I idea about. So, newspapers would differentiate between words like "здóрово" and "здoрóво" with accent marks?

[ob-ivan.livejournal.com]

of course they would. (however they don't usually print either of the words "здОрово" and "здорОво" for the words are of a colloquial usage)

[constpd.livejournal.com]

Yes, they would if it is not absolutely clear from the context.

[constpd.livejournal.com]

BTW, I forgot that there is one more case where the stress is used:
Я знаю, что должен сделать (I know, that I shold do [smth.])
Я знаю, чтó должен сделать (I know, what I should do)

[solito.livejournal.com]

Try http://slovari.donpac.ru/lang/ru/ibooks/lib/gram/index1.html
Login name: guest
Password: guest

There is a font Times New Roman CyrAC (in the 7th line) that has all the Russian vowel characters with the accent mark - though the font is italic.

[kasak.livejournal.com]

Ah, that was very helpful. A very interesting site, too! Thanks!

[solito.livejournal.com]

I found one more site for you :) http://hamster.pp.ru/old/fnts.htm - it has old slavonic font and Russian accented font.

Regarding the grammar site - there is a mirror of it that does not require password: http://rusgram.narod.ru/

[solito.livejournal.com]

Oops... The link does not work :(

[crculver.livejournal.com]

You can use the Cyrillic letter plus Unicode U+0301 COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT.

[kasak.livejournal.com]

Never thought about that. Thank you for the tip!

[dyrbaglyz.livejournal.com]

Кру́то!

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

A stressed consonant? Man, it's awesome.

[dyrbaglyz.livejournal.com]

?
How you read it? In browser it is OK.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

IE 6.0 under WinXP. The stress is on T.

[dyrbaglyz.livejournal.com]

Win2000, Firefox 1.0. I will also check it in Firefox under Linux.
Кру́то, Кру́то, Кру॔то - all right for me. Unicode character (x341,x301,x954 hex) for acute accent always after vowel.

[dyrbaglyz.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Firefox 0.8/Linux shows accents separately from letters. So it is not so straightforward...

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

The first example under XP/IE6 shows a blank square between y and T, the second shows an accented T, the third -- a very strange krokozyabra between y and T. None shows a stressed y.

[suku-vse.livejournal.com]

As far as I remember, usage "быть" in the present tense was only in Old Slavonic (Старославянский) language. So, while it's still present in церковнославянский - it's not the feature of Russian language. I can't give you the exact century, but it's been definitely more than 100 years.

I would say at least 500 years. That's my intuition's voice, maybe it's not true.

[kasak.livejournal.com]

Ah, so it's older than I had thought. So, essentially, no living Russian has used these in conversation?

[remi-jakovlevic.livejournal.com]

only 3rd sg form есть is still used nowadays, especially in locative and existential sentences; the locator (adverbial phrase) should be in the beginning of the sentence:
В гараже есть машина "There's a car in the garage"
У меня есть машина lit. "At mine's is a car = I have a car"
(compare with Машина в гараже / у меня "The car is in the garage", "I have the car")
Predicative adjectives (or predicative noun phrases, such as solito's наш последний бой) uselly needn't есть to introduce them (Это наш последний и решительный бой), unless you want to convey emphasis, or within a tautology (работа есть работа). In this case you can also find 3rd pl form суть: Ангелы суть (or есть) бесплотные существа "angels are fleshless beings".
Есть is also needed when there is no complement: Бог есть "God exists", Хорошо, что ты есть "It's nice that you exist".

[solito.livejournal.com]

Not only Old Slavonic - even now in the official, scientific or bureaucratic styles it can be used as well.

Это есть наш последний и решительный бой...

[eez.livejournal.com]

I'd say it's used to stress the importance of whatever is "есть". This is like saying "We do want this to happen". Though, the verb "есть" is used even less (can I say "rarer"?) than the do expression in English.

Besides, the only form of "быть" in the present tense is "есть" - for both single and plural and for all pronouns.
The forms you give are the old forms (I don't really know if they were Old Slavonic or Russian)

[solito.livejournal.com]

There is one more:

http://www.prodtp.ru/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewsdownload&sid=7&POSTNUKESID=2c7380520ec6a10e5fe57656c42f0924
Look at the font Дионисий there.

[remi-jakovlevic.livejournal.com]

эх, увы...
The script __a => á doesn't work in standard text redactors.
Stress characters cannot be cut and pasted (here's what we get: )
:(

[remi-jakovlevic.livejournal.com]

"stressed vowels", I mean

[dyrbaglyz.livejournal.com]

Poor man's accent often used in internet are 1) make accented letter bold:
Писать - не писать.
(To write is not to piss)
2) Write it capitalized (also can be used in plain text messages):
ЗдорОво! Как жизнь? - ЗдОрово!
(Hello! How are you? - Great!)

[ob-ivan.livejournal.com]

i also apply underlining for that purpose. in fact any kind of emphasis will do

[suku-vse.livejournal.com]

I would stress a difference between normal usage -

В безличных предложених (оr how would you guys call it? - В гараже есть машина. У меня есть пять килограмм варенья, и мы можем их съесть.
you can translate this kind of sentences with there is/there are.

and usage in stylistic purposes,

Это есть наш последний и решительный бой.



As for scientific style, I wouldn't say there's normal usage of 'есть' in modern language. Though I remembered Chehov "Остров есть часть суши, окруженная водой ..." оr from another old story, what a soldier should learn by heart "Солдат есть имя ...." and I think that "есть" was a part of formal languauge.

Again, I can be wrong. If you're going to through tomatoes at me, let me know, I'll put a helmet on.

[remi-jakovlevic.livejournal.com]

see my post (about emphasis in predicative adjectives and noun phrases = именная часть сказуемого)
у меня есть машина (у меня новая машина) are not impersonnal (безличные предл.)Use the past form to check this point: У меня была машина, тут был автомобиль etc. As shows the gender agreement, the noun phrase in Nominative case is the subject.
The translation doesn't keep the syntactical structure.

[suku-vse.livejournal.com]

How would you call these kind of sentences?

Ok, anyway, you can use "есть" only with the phrases that should be translated with there is there are.

But how about&

У него есть температура ....

I should think about better definition.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

У него есть температура cannot be used as is - only as an answer to an appropriate question: does he have a fever? Yes he does -- in this case "yes he does" is this "У него есть температура".

[remi-jakovlevic.livejournal.com]

Most slavists call them "existential sentences" / бытийные предложения, on the basis of a "bunch" of formal and semantical criteria (the translation "there is / there are" is in no way a good definition =:0) ) :
- subject/verb relation (syntax),
- word order,
- sentence stress
and:
- degree of determination of the noun phrase in Nominative : машина [here] "A car".

Whenever you don't speak about existence or possession, but about a state (температура => illness) and/or a qualification (новая машина "new car", see also температура = high temperature), you don't use есть:

У него температура
На улице снег
У меня новая машина

The reintroduction of есть is possible, but it requires several precise conditions.

[dyrbaglyz.livejournal.com]

Concerning verbs есмь, еси, есмы, есте, суть.
In "Хождение за три моря Афанасия Никитина" (http://www.drevne.ru/lib/afanas_o.htm), 15th century, they are used quite often. Unlike later works, it has separate translation to modern Russian: http://www.drevne.ru/lib/afanas_s.htm
In "Домострой" (http://www.drevne.ru/lib/domos_1.htm), 16th century, only "суть" as verb used sometimes.
In "Повесть об Азовском осадном сидении донских казаков" (http://www.drevne.ru/lib/kazak.htm), 17th century and in the poems of Василий Тредиаковский and Михаил Ломоносов (18th century) they are not used at all.
Суть is used in modern Russian as noun with meaning "essence". There is also one phrase used even now: "не суть важно" - "not important at all".

[suku-vse.livejournal.com]

Суть этого явления ....

По своей сути .....

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Don't mix up the noun ("Суть" ~~the essence) and the old plural verb form.

[dyrbaglyz.livejournal.com]

Verb Суть is also used now to make "pseudoarchaic" sentence. But not others.

[vladon.livejournal.com]

"Суть" is often used in Russian mathematical texts also. Especially in old Soviet, pre-60-70's books.

Банахово и гильбертово пространства суть нормированные пространства, дополненные некоторыми свойствами.
(Banach space and Hilbert space are normed space with some other properties.)

[kehlen-crow.livejournal.com]

Wow! I have never known these forms (I mean those of the verb "быть") - I read them from time to time, of course, but don't know which person or number(?) they are.
*envies those who do and tries to remember*

An expample of usage, though, from folk tales (and if I'm not mistaken it was also used in Pushin's tales):
"Ох, ты гой еси добрый молодец".