Иван-Царевич

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

If one wanted to say "I know a girl who lives in Russia." Would you say "Я знаю девочку, которая живёт в России" or "Я знаю девочку, кто живёт в России." And come to think of it, is знать even the correct verb to use here? I'm aware of Romance languages having a difference between knowing information and knowing people/places/objects.

As for Иван-Царевич, I just need help with some vocabulary, if you please: спустившийся, простившись, вспоминая, and зачарованный (and why it takes instrumental, since it's an adjective)... for now...

As well as a couple of phrases: "...пока не добрался до высоких гор, вершины которых белели от снега". (the period is just for wolk_off) I'm not quite sure what declension they used in the bold. Is it "The peaks of which...?"
"...чтобы не умереть с голоду". I wasn't aware you could use c for dative constructions... or is that a set expression in Russian?
"Правда, путь домой оказался куда трудней, чем путь из дома". The куда трудней completely lost me.
"Огромное дерево вдруг рухнуло и загородило ему дорогу". The ему дорогу is what lost me here...

Comments

[xpy.livejournal.com]

1. The right way to say: Я знаю девочку, КОТОРАЯ живет в России, not КТО. In Russian use you знать for both people and things and places... and pretty much everything :)
2. спустившийся = something like "he who has come down, he who has descended"; простившись = having said good-bye; вспоминая = recalling, remembering, thinking of; зачарованный = charmed.
3. "...пока не добрался до высоких гор, вершины которых белели от снега" - here "которых" refers to mountains, so it means "until he came to some big mountains, the peaks of which were white with snow".
4. "...чтобы не умереть с голоду" - kinda colloquial, rather old style, the same as "чтобы не умереть от голода"
5. "куда" with adj means same as "much more", also colloquial/old stylish.
6. "загородило ЕМУ дорогу" - blocked the way FOR HIM.

[xpy.livejournal.com]

Actually, I think Russian tales are not the easiest material... When I was little, some phrases from the tales really made me wonder cuz to me they had no sense whatsoever and didn't even sound quite Russian :)

[earth-blue.livejournal.com]

"1. The right way to say: Я знаю девочку, КОТОРАЯ живет в России" - That's right.
But it is possible to write: Я знаю девочку, что живёт в России.

[xpy.livejournal.com]

yeah, but it's rather poetic although fine for songs and stuff like that :) but not for speech

[earth-blue.livejournal.com]

Totally agree :)

[nbuwe.livejournal.com]

Я знаю девочку. Девочка живет в России. -> Я знаю девочку, которая живет в России.

"Знаю" is correct. In Russian there's no distinction like, e.g. between German "wissen" and "kennen".

... добрался до высоких гор. Вершины (и.п.) гор (р.п.) белели от снега. -> ... добрался до высоких гор, вершины которых белели от снега.

So to glue the two sentnces like these together, you replace the common repeated word with "который" in same gender, case and number, as the word it replaces.

A more complex example, in which the common word is used in different forms.
Я знаю сказку (в.п). Ты говоришь о сказке (п.п). -> Я знаю сказку, о которой (п.п) ты говоришь.

"С голоду" is not dative, it's a peculiar "-у" form of genitive used for masculine nouns.

[yms.livejournal.com]

"...чтобы не умереть с голоду"

"Голоду" is not dative here, it's a special form of genitive used in certain situations.
I found some article about it:
http://www.russofile.ru/articles/article_138.php

In Ukrainian -у ending is more usual for genitive :)

[ekeme-ndiba.livejournal.com]

"...чтобы не умереть с голоду". I wasn't aware you could use c for dative constructions... or is that a set expression in Russian?

In fact, it's not dative, but partitive case (also known as "second genitive"). It's used with some masculine uncountable nouns. Keep in mind that the partitive usually implies colloquial or archaic style, while in few cases its usage is still neutral. But, in general, it usually can be replaced by a standard genitive form.
It is interesting that this partitive case uses historical genitive ending "y" (compare with Ukrainian or Greek), while Russian genitive itself uses endings of the extinct ablative case.

Moreover, some Russian nouns have also a "second prepositional" case (also known as true locative): prespositional о лесе, о снеге, о тени vs. locative в лесу, в снегу, в тени. This case usage is mandatory, second prepositional/locative cannot be replaced by usual prepositional.

Finally, in colloquial speech, familiar first name forms and kinship terms have so-called "new vocative" case, formed via omitting the ending.

In final analysis, you may find that Russian has 9 cases in fact ;-)

[nbuwe.livejournal.com]

Why stop at 9? ;)
http://kolmogorov.pms.ru/uspensky-k_opredeleniyu_padezha_po_kolmogorovu.html

[viga.livejournal.com]

месье знает толк в извращениях!

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

>"Правда, путь домой оказался куда трудней, чем путь из дома"

In all cases like this, you may replace "куда" with "намного" (much more). It's just a set expression. Many people would say not, for example "ехать поездом намного лучше, чем автобусом" (to go by train is much better than by bus,) but "ехать поездом куда лучше, чем автобусом".
>"Огромное дерево вдруг рухнуло и загородило ему дорогу".
It's simple: literally -- A huge tree suddenly fell and barred him the way." -- that is, barred his way.

[solito.livejournal.com]

If I am not wrong, there is a similar expression in colloquial English: "way". "...it was way more difficult..."

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

You're correct, but it's completely frustrating to know when to compare two languages and when not to. My teacher tells me "Ok, you know the grammar... now to work on your sentences." English is evil.

[noser.livejournal.com]

Using the terminology of these guys (http://www.alphadictionary.com/rusgrammar/particip.html):

спустившийся = "who came down"
It's a past active participle, masculine, Nom. of "спуститься" (to come down, perfective)

простившись = "having said goodbye"
It's a past adverbial participle of "проститься" (to say goodbye, perfective)

вспоминая = recalling (as in "I smiled, recalling the show")
It's a present adverbial participle of "вспоминать" (to recall/to remember, imperfective)

зачарованный = enchanted
It's a past passive participle, masculine, Nom. of "зачаровать" (to enchant, perfective)

AFAIK

[vombatus.livejournal.com]

1. "с голоду" is a set expression.
2. "вершины которых" yes, you are correct, the translation would be something like "...till he reached the high mountains with tops white with snow..."
3. спустившийся - having came down... hmmm... спустившийся с гор пастух - a shepherd who came down from the mountains.
4. Простившись - having said goodbyes. Простившись с женой - having said goodbye to his wife.
5. вспоминая - having remembered (something in particular, like вспоминая осень)
6. зачарованный - enchanted from the word чары - spells, this is a bit archaic though.
7. "Я знаю девочку, которая живёт в России" is correct. As I understand this is just a usage difference between english and russian in english you would use "who" in russian you use "which - которая".
8. Unless you go for biblical references знать is the proper verb here. But in english you can also know someone and biblicaly know someone ;) Also correct would be я знаком с девочкой...
9. куда трудней - much harder than, куда is used in the same meaning as гораздо. Another perverted usage (mind you this is regular russian, I call it perverted just because it confuses the hell out of non-native speakers) would be путь домой оказался куда как труднее, чем путь из дома.

Mind you, that I am definitely not an authority on russian grammar, I am just a native speaker. Some of the "Why?" questions you might try asking on pishu_pravilno community.
Any other questions?

Re: AFAIK

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

I'm not familiar with the трудней declension. Which declension is that? Or is it the much harder adverb? Because I thought the "much more so-and-so" ended in -ee

Re: AFAIK

[vombatus.livejournal.com]

You are absolutely correct. I made a spelling error, proper is труднее. Sorry.

Re: AFAIK

[vombatus.livejournal.com]

Then again, I probably just cut-n-pasted the error from your original post :)

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

Now YOU are absolutely correct. But then again, I copied what my little Иван-Царевич book told me :P

Re: AFAIK

[oryx_and_crake]

don't worry, both forms are correct

трудней/труднее
быстрей/быстрее
зеленей/зеленее

and so on.

Girl

[alpha-cygnus.livejournal.com]

Girl also can be translated as девушка, it depends on her age. Is she really young (teenager)? If she is older than 16 years old then she might be девушка, not девочка :)