(no subject)

[lollydoll.livejournal.com]

Oooh, Hello again ^^
I'm in a bit of a puddle here. Next week I will be headed to Moscow, and well.. My language skills still aren't at a good level. I know how to speak a few basics "Hello, my name is ___, Do you speak English, I know a little Russian, I am American" etc, and a few other sayings and questions, but that is about all. Teaching myself with audio cds and books dosen't get very far even with a few months practice. Story goes I will be meeting someone. He knows how to speak and understand English pretty fluently, but his friends and parents do not (atleast not as well) What worries me is my pronounciation and if I will be able to understand hearing something actually spoken. Has anyone ever been to Russia before, or lives there? Also, do many people know English in Russia? I'm curious to know how well someone in my position will be able to get by and if so, how well you got by :)

Comments

I know this doesn't help you personally but...

[l8on.livejournal.com]

I'm also curious to know if many people in Russia know English...
Perhaps a native Russian in this community can answer. :)

[quem98.livejournal.com]

I spent all of last year studying in Russian... It was an amazing experience for me.

I'd say it's something of a crap shoot as to the number of English speakers. I've lived in Petersburg, not Moscow, but I have friends there, both Russian and American. Most restaurants, especially in Moscow have English menus and such, so you won't starve. There is a free English Language Newspaper called "The Moscow TImes" Which is published by the Ex-Pat community over there. It has all the goings on in the city and some local and overseas news. Good stuff. I'd still highly reccomend taking some Russian courses while you're there if you don't want to rely too heavily on your friend. You will also be amazed at how quickly you will pick Russian up when you're surrounded by it. If you don't understand something, a simple "Ya ne ponimau" will work wonders. If you don't understand something/ want to know something, ask. They will appreciate the effort and understand that their native tongue is a fucking hard language for us non-Slavic folk.

But a few things you should be aware of... Keep in mind these are really sweeping generalizations.
You may find that there is a general mistrust for foreigners, especially Americans in general (thank you, Mr. President), but once they get to know you, they'll be very interested in who you are, where you're from, etc. Again, not everyone, but there are a few who take the attitude of "All Americans are bad. I hate them... But I know this one... And she's ok." It's very odd. (To the Russians on this list, please don't lynch me for saying that.)

Be prepared to be charged 5 times as much as your friend for tickets to Plays, Museums, and other such things (which are nonetheless worthwhile going to). There is a Russian price and "foreign" price for everything.

People will seem really rude on the streets, especially to foreigners. That's sort of the Russian style. It's the norm to look imposing while walking down the street. This doesn't mean that they're bad people. They're really nice by in large once you get into their homes.

On a related note, DON'T SMILE while walking down the street. It's just not proper street etiquette. They will think you're sick in the head. With friends, at home, it's a different story.

If you can read Russian, the Moscow Metro is Gorgeous and by far and away the fastest, cheapest, and easiest way of getting around the city. All of the station stops are clearly marked. The marking on the trolleys, busses and minivan thingies (marshrutki) are downright apocryphal.

Don't dress like you're going camping. Bring mice looking clothing if you want to make the effort of blending in. Russian women tend to dress up even for a quick run to the grocery store (My host mom made fun of me a little for not wearing makeup to class). They also wear impossibly high stiletto heels, but I opted not to break my neck on the ice. Just be prepared to see a lot of girls dressed like fashion models.

Russians also tend to be up front about things. The American custom of "If you don't have anything nice to say..." does not apply. If someone doesn't like your outfit or thinks you're not dressed warmly, they will let you know. Old ladies will stop you on the street and tell you to put your hat on. No joke.

The most important thing about going is to keep a sense of humor about everything... Russia has its own logic that is at turns amazing, frustrating, and confusing. Don't take things personally. Don't let pushy old ladies get you down. The more you can laugh at yourself and the world around you, the easier your time will be. Language messups are funny. Keep everything in perspective, be patient and you'll be fine.

.

[quem98.livejournal.com]

In Russia... Damn it, why can't I edit my comment? Why didn't I proofread my comment?

[quem98.livejournal.com]

No problem.

[arden667.livejournal.com]

wow, that was really helpful. i think i'll be spending next fall studying abroad in petersberg, and i was a little worried. this made me feel a lot better. when it gets closer for time for me to leave, i'd love to hear of places you recommend going to!

[quem98.livejournal.com]

Feel free to IM me via AIM. My screen name is the same as my LJ name.

I always love talking about my experiences.

Out of curiostiy, are you going with ACTR or a different program?

[noser.livejournal.com]

Good stuff. Made me smile -- I grew up in Moscow, almost everything you talk about is very familiar.

Some things look funny now when I think of 'em after living a few years in US. What makes Russian old ladies behave like that is a complete mistery to me. In America. old ladies are either few in numbers or nowhere to be seen. In Russia, they are ubiquitous.

[simonff.livejournal.com]

If you answer "spasibo, babushka" to any of those ladies, you'll make her happy for a few days. :)

[simonff.livejournal.com]

"Minivan thingies"!!! :))) You made my day!

[welgar.livejournal.com]

In general, I agree with Pashili's comments. It's best to address young people (or middle-class ones) and not elderly ones. However, better don't communicate to any suspicious young people (like skinheads and so on) because they may not be adequate. ;-)
There's nothing bad or weird about smiling. It may not be a national tradition but they won't take you to a hospital. :-)

Regarding transport, I wouldn't recommend you to use buses unless you know which one to take and when to go out for sure. Otherwise you may easily get lost (I used to do it often myself). Metro is, IMHO, much more convenient and fast, although may be not as comfortable as London's underground, for example.

You may try to look for some travel guides on the Net. I've seen a few rather good ones (but I don't remember where).
Also, if you have any questions or problems, you may also write to me at my LJ (it's in Russian but never mind) or by e-mail (on my info page).

[lollydoll.livejournal.com]

That was quite helpful, indeed. I've heard a few of what you mentioned, about people in Russia can be quite blunt, or that most women dress up a bit for whever they are headed. Though, I don't think we will be going to any plays or museums ^^ Thank you, I'll keep what you said in mind.

Good advice...

[alektoeumenides.livejournal.com]

Given earlier on. I live and work in Russia at the moment (almost two years and my Russian is still awful....). I had some Polish to back me up, so I coped ok at first, but it's only now that I feel truly able to cope with day-to-day situations.

Basically in the big cities someone somewhere might be able to help you, but even at the best of times "service culture" isn't great here, so you might not get as much help as you'd expect.

If you desperately need something, get someone to write it down in Russian for you, so if the worst comes to the worst you can flash that.

Pronounciation is an issue. I've had many occasions when I have said something clearly and yet, for some reason, the listener has claimed not to understand. Perhaps my stress was slightly off or something, but what I said was quite clear: I think some Russians are simply intolerant of bad accents, unlike English speakers who are more used to hearing varying levels of English.

As for understanding spoken Russian - well, it depends on how much exposure you've had. As with any foriegn language it'll seem like a deluge at first until you get used to it.

There are times when playing dumb foreigner are definately a plus. When dealing with officials/militsia/pesky people trying to get you to pay them to do something (ie a tour) don't say a word in Russian. The second you do, you let yourself in for the potential to be conned because they'll presume you understand more then you do/seem to show. Just keep "not understanding", even if you do, and they'll either get bored and leave you alone or have to find someone who can actually translate/deal with the situation properly. Only ever deal with such situations in Russian if you are quite fluent (and even then, it's often best to use your foriegn-ness as an ace...it's one of the few times it might work to your advantage here).

Anyway, hope that was useful. Have a great trip and good luck!

Re: Good advice...

[yers.livejournal.com]

I think some Russians are simply intolerant of bad accents, unlike English speakers who are more used to hearing varying levels of English.

I'm afraid this is ego defence taken one step too far. "More used"? Name me an English-speaking country with forty or so significant ethnolinguistic minorities.

[simonff.livejournal.com]

Nevertheless, American English (not to mention British, Australian English etc) has more different regional accents than Russian. Plus the foreigners are ubiquitous. In Russia, you may spend weeks without running in any of the minorities with accents, and even among those most speak accentless Russian. (I've yet to meet an ethnic Tartar who has an accent.)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

I've been maaried to an ethnic Tatar for 8 years, so I'm an expert in this :) Tatars in Tatar villages inside Tatarstan sometimes have accent (and sometimes speak almost no Russian, byt he way.) City people (i.e., in Kazan) have no accent at all and sometimes speak better Russian than ethnic Russians do.

Re: Good advice...

[lollydoll.livejournal.com]

That's good advice. I've been warned about military officials before and the such, expecially in the airports and what to look out for :)
I am really worried about my pronounciation, but hopefully my friend will be able to help and I won't have to say too much.

[pashili.livejournal.com]

Hi!
I read everything written here (other's comments as well) attentively, and decided that someone russian should have a word here :) that''s right, not too many people cna speak well english even in the capital - keep in mind that it''s better to adress young people on the streets - older generation had another interests than learning languages :) People here truly do not smile, but it doesn''t mean that a smiling person on street will be regarded as someone crazy :) I''m sure any foreigner will find Russia a strange place, american or european logic can''t be fuly applied here. But we do have some logic of our own - and if you get into difficult situation people will do there best, even if they can't speak a word of english. Also you truly will learn much russian, if you are coming to russian family - do not worre, when people are eager to speak here, theyb will amke themselfs easily understood even withsimple gestures.
if you ahve more questions, btw, i''ll pbe pleased to answer..... I understand yur situation in a way - this autumn I went to my friend in Iran, a country which shocked me completely, though i dearly love it now,,,, believ me there very FEW people could speak english, and the differences were great, still I was enjoying myself, knwoing only a bit of farsi
wish yu luck!

[quem98.livejournal.com]

Yes, I did exagerate a little bit about the smiling thing partailly for comic effect, and partially because it was a major part of my personal exerience in Russia... As you've probably noticed, when you are alien to your surroundings, little things like not smiling seem to exagerate in a foreigners mind. Russia becomes this land of cold, unhappy people. Your averagre foreigner (read. me) might jump to the conclusion that it is because Russians are by in large cold, unfeeling people. This is, in fact very much not the case. But if you don't know that, the streets are mighty scare. It goes hand in hand with being Alien to your setting.

Second of all, as far as pickpockets, skinheads, and other folk are concerned, foreigner = wealthy. Smiling on the street is by in large "American" etiquette. Best not to draw more attention to yourself in that regard then you need to.

Third of all, the smiling thing is the one thing I hear over and over about from both my American friends living there and my Russian friends living here. It's a small detail, but it highlights a major cultural difference between Russians and Americans. (I'm going to write a dissertation on such differences, but for the sake of you all, I will spare you that diatribe)

[flower-flavor.livejournal.com]

The smiling thing made me wonder if Petersburg and Moscow are really THAT different.
For if I was punched in the face for every time I smiled in the street or other public place, I'd be dead as all hell now.

[genuine-stacey.livejournal.com]

i dont really agree that only a few people speak english in russia.. many people study english, which means they can speak it, poorly though. but i'm quite sure that you'll be able to address them your saying.

also, quite a few people know a bit of other languages, like german or french, so you could use those as well (sorry i dont know if thats really relevant).

though i would rather travel with a friend who speaks both russian and english.. =) i dont know, i would just be really confused and lost if i went somehwere and did not know the language well enough to communicate..

[svl.livejournal.com]

i dont really agree that only a few people speak english in russia.. many people study english, which means they can speak it, poorly though. but i'm quite sure that you'll be able to address them your saying.

Yep. Almost everyone studies English in school here, it is the standard foreign language for some 40 years in schools. But, well, you're right about poor English, in general, too.

Try to address young and middle age people, especially IT people (watch for PDAs, notebooks, other gadgets:), they speak English better then others.

[quem98.livejournal.com]

I had dated a boy over there who studied English for five or six years in their high school equivolent and didn't know how to say more than "How are you" and "Drinking Russian Vodka". Just because you take a language in school does not mean that you can speak it.

[wretched-girl.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't tell them you were American...say you are from England or something..

[svl.livejournal.com]

Oh, this won`t work. You walk like American, talk like American and look like American, so you're American no matter what do you say about being British:)
Believe, we can detect you, Americans, easily:)

[quem98.livejournal.com]

Hell, by the end of my trip I started picking out the foreigners on the street by the end of my stay.

[svl.livejournal.com]

Hehe:)
And, on the smiles: there is simply a psychological effect. Russians smile when they are happy, when they are glad to see someone, etc. So for us smile is a sign of some specific emotions. Americans "wear" their smiles, just like they wear their clothes, so Russians instinctively think that Americans "lie" with these smiles (i.e. they are giving a fake sign of happiness). That`s why smiling all the way is not recommended here, IMHO.

[quem98.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with you.
There is an emphasis here on keeping up appearances. Regardless of what's going on, you should always look like everything is peachy.

The Russian's I talked to just don't get that.

For more on this topic, Ilf and Petrov wrote a hystarically funny memoir on the subject called "Odnoetazhnaya America". It was written in the 30's but much of it is still quite relevant. If it's still in print, it's very much worth the read.

[svl.livejournal.com]

I know about that book, there is another one...wait a second, I've got it here, near my notebook..."America sprava i sleva" by Strelnikov and Shatunovskii, 1972. These two guys took the way that Ilf and Petrov. took back in 1930s.
Of course, some things in this book are just propaganda, but not all.

[lollydoll.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I wouldn't know how to go about pretending I was from England or elsewhere without running into some sort of trouble eventually or with questions. But, I hope people don't mind Americans that much for me to say I am of a different nationality.