Learning to roll your R's

[bhv.livejournal.com]

I've finally come to the place in my Russian course where I am supposed to lear how to say Russian words like ruble and the plural form "rublAy" that have a rolled R sound.

Now I've had a lot of fun trying to make the proper sound, but so far I can only produce sounds that remind you of a motorboat.

How can native speakers of languages without rolled R's learn to roll thieir R's to speak Russian?

Comments

[past-the-past.livejournal.com]

I'm curious about this, too. Usually I am not very successful in producing the rolled sound at all :(

[kasak.livejournal.com]

It just takes practice.

The Chairwoman of the Russian Department at the University of Iowa, which is supposedly one of the best places for you to do your undergrad in Russian language, used to have a speach problem when she was a little girl were she would talk like Elmer Fudd. Rs and Ls would all become Ws. Now, she speaks Russian like a native.

You just have to concentrate on making the sounds on your own. Eventually, you can do it.

[commiegirl.livejournal.com]

I learned how to do it as a kid when I was trying to purr to my cat! I really can't give any advice though. :-(

[irinta.livejournal.com]

it's hard to explain, but you make Russian "r" with the tip of your tongue, it is short and there is no any throat vibration, which gives you a motorboat sound. (Long "r" you can find only in poetry and in songs).

[marzchik263.livejournal.com]

My Russian teacher told us that when people can't roll their r's it's considered "cute."


whatever that means.

i had a native spanish speaker teacher once who couldn't roll her r's. some people just can't do it.

[raeyn.livejournal.com]

perhaps there is something online that will enable you to hear the sound?

myself, i had speech impediments when i was young, and my two foreign languages are french and russian.. i cannot roll an "r" for the life of me, but i can kinda bastardize the sound.. ... ... except for right now, becuse i just woke up, and can't think :D

but i think i saw that cat-purring suggestion up there? that seems to be a good idea :D

good luck to thee!

xoxo

Thanks

[bhv.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the tip. Fortunately I can hear a clear difference between the rolled r's on the tape and the sound I have so far been able to make, so I am hopeful that I will be able to learn this.

Re: Thanks

[raeyn.livejournal.com]

:) you'll do well, i'm sure.

[limenal.livejournal.com]

Okay, this might be ridiculous, and I don't know if it will work at all, but try thinking of/doing it this way:

1. The place on the roof of your mouth that your tongue hits when you roll your Rs is basically the same place it hits when you make a "duh" sound. The action of your speech is totally different from when you make a regular "ruh" sound, so don't try to do that and then modify it to roll the R for Russian, because mechanically it's a different process. Side note: I can do Russian rolling with no problem at all, but cannot do a Spanish-language roll to save my own life.

2. But the difference is, when you say "duh", you start with the tip of your tongue there on your palate and move it down as you push out the air. When you do a Russian R, your tongue starts down, in the front of your mouth, comes up and back to briefly hit the roof of your mouth as you push the air out, and finishes a little further back in the middle of your mouth. It needs to be done quickly - your tongue sort of whips back. The movement is kind of a wave from front to middle, where you pull your tongue backwards, rapidly, and up somewhat forcefully at the same time, sort of a flicking. At the same time, of course, you're forcing air out to make sound.

If you can practice making this motion and get it down, maybe in doing so you'll figure out how to make the sound. When you do it without the air (with your mouth closed or whatever), it makes a clicking/knocking sound on the roof of your mouth when done with enough speed and force. I don't know if this will be at all helpful, but this was the best way I could describe it! Good luck!

[limenal.livejournal.com]

Oh, and, one thing my Russian teacher said for people who were struggling with this was that you could practice it more easily with words/phrases that have an R in the middle, by substituting a D for the R. For example (I'm sorry, I'm going to do this in non-Cyrillic and probably not even properly spelled), "pa-Russki". Try saying, "pa-dusski" - this mimics the movement of your mouth when you roll the R, although it's not quite right and doesn't sound the same. It might give you a foundation for practicing on your own to make the sound.

Two great tips

[bhv.livejournal.com]

Thanks for both of these tips. I'm trying them, and while I think I'm making progress, I still sound a bit like baby babble. What fun!

[sillybridget.livejournal.com]

I found practice and mimicry best for me. Just keep doing it until it becomes comfortable. When I first started learning Russian I was 13 or 14 and my mouth actually hurt from speaking it because of the new sounds I wasn't used to. i found watching a Russian TV show helped a lot because I could listen to how they did it and it made it easier.

Mimicry and TV

[bhv.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the tip. I just got NTV America ~[HTB] turned on at my house a week ago and am really enjoying it even though I still can only understand a few words. My next plan is to get a Tivo box so I can "rewind" live TV and more easily mimic something I want to learn.

[wretched-girl.livejournal.com]

I don't know. I have good pronunciation, and I am an English speaker. What I do is listen to a lot of Russian songs...like t.A.T.u. and Alena Apina and Combinatziya.

Thanks

[bhv.livejournal.com]

I really might like Russian songs. I have enjoyed a lot of foreign language music simply as music and since I am trying hard to learn Russian it might be even more interesting.

A couple of nights ago I was watching NTV and a woman singer was singing an absolutely enchanting song while waving a couple of huge playing cards like fans in front of her. I didn't understand what the cards were for, and I didn't understand any of the words, but the music was wonderful. I hope they play it again.

[squodge.livejournal.com]

One thing I learned from Pimsleur Russian Level 1 was this:

Consider the phrase "Prince of Prussia"

Now say use D's instead of R's and you have:

"Pdince of Pdussia"

Now say this phrase very slowly at first, and slowly increase the speed until your tongue flaps, and you'll get the trilled R in no time. I'm lucky in that I've been able to trill, tap, velarise, gutturalise, and aprroximate my R's since I was a kid.

This Pimsleur method of trilling R's worked with a Chinese friend of mine, so hope it works for you ^__^

~ squodge ~

That Really Works!

[bhv.livejournal.com]

Thanks a bunch. That exercise really is fun and I think I'm closing in on the right sound. I still can't do it consistently, but occasionally it actually rolls! What fun. I think I'll get it soon!

OFFTOPIC

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Now try to imagine what some of us Russians feel when we try to master this unbelieveably difficult English R (especially if it's American English) :-))))

Re: OFFTOPIC

[bhv.livejournal.com]

I deeply sympathize. However the "Pdince of Pdussia" exercise has helped me be able to roll my R's [at least some of the time] and there probably is some equivalent Russian language exercise that would help you say English R's. Unfortunately I don't know what it is.

Re: OFFTOPIC

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

At least I haven't heard about anything like this :) I can do it now, more or less successfully (unfortunately, less successfully comes more often:-))), but this took me about six years of practice.
I have never studied English formally, though.

Re: OFFTOPIC

[welgar.livejournal.com]

I think English R is easier that the Russian one. At least it doesn't involve those complex movements of the tongue.

I myself learned the rolled R for a few years when I was a kid. Even when I finally learned it, I didn't know it was the right sound for quite a long time (until my parents heard me use that sound). So you'll need patience to learn it.