translation difficulties

[barbarisotschka.livejournal.com]

Hi! :-)

I'm translating a text about an musician & there's a phrase I don't really get:
(In the sentences before the author states that the artist for several reasons doesn't belong to a certain style of music):
Об артистизме как игре своим искусством ― и речи быть не может!

What does the first part of the sentence mean? Something like L'art pourt l'art? Thank you so much for your help in advance!!
Barbara

Comments

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

I would translate it as "The artistry, as in "the playfulness about your own art..." (whatever that means: frankly, I do not get the exact meaning of this sentence myself, and I am a music journalist / editor ;-))

(I suppose the writer means "the level of artistry so excessive that the artist can be playful about it, can be able to play with his/her high artistic abilities" etc.)

thank you & a question

[barbarisotschka.livejournal.com]

Thank you, Wolk! I'm relieved that this confusing, even for a native speaker who is a music journalist! Your suggestions helped me lot (I translate to the German, I suppose you don't speak German, otherwise I would tell you what I wrote).
There is another rather zagadochni sentence in this text - if I may, I ask you, too: Подчеркнем, что справедливо отмеченное Бахтиным стремление романтического искусства стать чем-то вроде религии не могло или, точнее, не должно было разделяться Юдиной как человеком истово религиозным и православным.
I understand the first part of the sentence - "Bakhtin noticed rightfully that romantic art desires to become sort of a religion". But the second one - what does "razdeliatsia" mean here? Does it mean that "Judina could, or more precise should, not agree with that as she was a truly religious and christian-orthodx person."? I only razdeliatsia as "seperate" (doesn't make sense here, does it?) or "razdeliat mnenia" (would make sense, but the grammar structure, if possible!, would be new for me)
Again thank you so much for your help!

Re: thank you & a question

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Du kannst auch Deutsch schreiben ;-)

As of the second sentence - yes, that one is rather tricky.

Разделять что-либо (разделяться is the same in passive voice, and yes, this is what makes the sentence stylistically so awkward) can also, rather surprisingly, mean "to share something," as if "я разделяю твою озабоченность" (I share your concerns). Logically, this means "you and I, we share the same concern." Therefore, "it could not, or rather sould not, be shared by Yudina who was an earnestly / zealously religious Orthodox Christian practitioner."

Re: thank you & a question

[barbarisotschka.livejournal.com]

Oh - du sprichst Deutsch, wie schön. :-) Ich habe geschrieben: Von Kunst als Spiel mit der eigenen Schaffenskraft kann keine Rede sein! (For those who don't speak German: I just wrote the German translation of my problematic sentence).
And a big thank you for the second sentence, too! It took me so long to get that this is passive voice - and then I was still unsure, if you can razdeliat anything except mnenia. But now, budu znat! :-) Have a good Saturday + say hello to Moscow from me (can't believe its ten years since I lived there)!

Re: thank you & a question

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Do come back.. while it's still possible ;-) (OK, OK, we speak languages here, nothing else.)
Yes, it's the passive voice. There's nothing more hated by editors (and difficult to fix) than pseudo-intellectual stuff written in passive voice, where one could perfectly well use the active voice. Worse than that is only when writers use people's names in passive voice constructions (and therefore in cases other than nominative) -- AND MAKE IT A HEADLINE OR TITLE. (Say, "Три новых рассказа написаны Василием Пупкиным", instead of "Василий Пупкин написал три новых рассказа").

Re: thank you & a question

[barbarisotschka.livejournal.com]

Interesting that you consider this bad style. I don't "feel" Russian so well, but I always find names in cases other than nominative very intriguing, because we don't have that in German. ;) We have passive voice in German but I can't imagine using it in this sentence or in general with the word "to share/agree" (teilen, zustimmen)if there is only one person (and not a whole institution or organisation).

Re: thank you & a question

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Exactly becaue it is bad, vague, pseudo-intellectual style with too many compound sentences instead of a string of clearer, simpler phrases (which do not LOOK that intellectual, that is for sure, but make much easier reading. And oh yes, I totally understand that make writing easily readable has a very low priority for an "intellectual" writer.)

Re: thank you & a question

[barbarisotschka.livejournal.com]

PS. Isn't it interesting that one word can mean both "seperate" and "share"? I mean they are quite opposites.

Re: thank you & a question

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Why, "to share" also has this dual meaning (as in "gatherers and sharers" in The Lord Of The Ring, who did gather the Hobbits' crops, but never shared it with anybody.)

[rower.livejournal.com]

from what I understand of Russian and German - your translation is nearly perfect. :)
still I can not understand what is meant, too. I guess, it means - one should not talk about artistry as ability to play with his own skill. i could understand that as "always do your best, do not try to imitate others best" and "always do your best, no what might be sufficient for the case", but i could be dead wrong (and lack of humanitarian education could be the cause) :)

.

[lion-casserole.livejournal.com]

.
A master should not introduce more colors or actions than actually needed. For example -- let's take soccer for example -- a forward should not exercise juggling prior to hit the goal.

Re: .

[barbarisotschka.livejournal.com]

Hmm, honestly, I don't really understand your comment. D you mean the sentence means that "art should not be about playfullness"?

Keep it simpe

[lion-casserole.livejournal.com]

.
There is no excuse for circus-style actions for drama actors or musicians.

>>
Однажды Евгений Евстигнеев сидел в буфете с Виктором Павловым за рюмкой коньяка. - Ты знаешь, - сказал Павлов, - лет пять назад я так сыграл одну драматическую роль, что рыдала вся съемочная группа. Всю площадку слезами залили, удержаться не могли... - Это что! - перебил Евстигнеев. - Я как-то раз так здорово сыграл мертвеца, что меня едва не похоронили...
<<

Update: I found a better example

Как Евстигнеев сорвал драматический спектакль.

Ему не понравилась маленькая по его масштабам роль (поставить пластинку на граммофон и сидеть, "наслаждаться музыкой"), и он сказал режиссёру: - Освободите меня от этой роли, или я сорву спектакль.

Режиссер велел делать то, что сказано.

В драматический момент Евстигнеев заводит граммафон, садится, и делает вид, что пытается прочитать, что написано на этикетке вращающейся пластинки, мотая головой.

Внимание зала приковано к нему, зал хохочет. Спектакль сорван.

[darth-biomech.livejournal.com]

I am a native speaker and even I don't exactly understand what this sentence means. Could you provide slightly bigger quote of text, please? To understand context of this.

[barbarisotschka.livejournal.com]

This is actually an unpublished text, so I feel a bit akward quoting too much from it. But have a look at Wolk's comments above, I think he made rather clear what the author probably meant. :-)

[olydiagron.livejournal.com]

Barbara, are you Barbara Lönnqvist?!:).
If you are, I need your help understanding and translating a tiny passage with a reference to Pasternak in a book by Lidia Chukovskaya ...:)

[barbarisotschka.livejournal.com]

Hej Oly, no I am not Barbara Lönnqvist... I am Barbara "insert German name". ;) Good luck with your translation! You could ask here, I got some very valuable advice here, especially Wolk helped me a lot last winter. :-)