В or на - where do I go to find out?

[lillilah]

I'm a huge fan of the Викисловарь and can usually find answers to my questions there, but this time I can't. So, how do I find out if I should use в or на with a place? There are the ones that I have already memorized, like "на почте" and "на заводе". However with new words, I go to Google to see if I can guess from search results. I would like a better way. Is there some element in the Викисловарь entry that would indicate which one to use? Спасибо!

Comments

[ananci.livejournal.com]

I think, Google is the better way in this case, unfortunately.
There is no rule, explaining what you should use. In addition, sometimes we use either в or на with the same word depending on the context. For example: в поле and на поле.

[lillilah]

Thanks anyway!

[ingwall.livejournal.com]

I am afraid there's no rule about it that is set in stone. There's actually a somewhat bitter political debate about the issue (whether на Украине or в Украине should be used), but the distinction is very subtle and hard to make. You say на заводе but в школе. Sometimes the meaning is drastically different depending on which one you use: на реке and в реке are both legit, but mean very different things. Moreover, you can say в почте or в заводе: the first one will mean "in the mail" as opposed to "at the post office" and the second is an antiquated turn of phrase meaning "it's customary".

So yeah, you are stuck. Sorry.

[lillilah]

Well, while this isn't as simple as "go to this list" or "if it is this type of word then use X", at least this is an answer (and interesting!). Thanks for your help!

[http://users.livejournal.com/_kpoxa/]

If you say about opened place, you need use "на" - на поляне, на площади, на улице, на крыше.
If you talking about closed place, use "в" - в доме, в гараже, в лесу, в театре, в музее.
But some many words no have this rules. Looks like "на почте, на вокзале", because in Russia 100 year ago these places be open and no have building and roof.

Sorry, my english is no good. I'm start learning.

[lillilah]

Do not feel bad about your English. It is certainly much better than my Russian. )

[http://users.livejournal.com/_kpoxa/]

Thank you... :-)

[mithrilian.livejournal.com]

"Looks like "на почте, на вокзале", because in Russia 100 year ago these places be open and no have building and roof."

? No, not because of that. How do you imagine a post office with no roof In RUSSIAN climate? :)

[philena.livejournal.com]

I would imagine because 100 years ago (or probably more like 200 or 300 years) a post office was not a permanent retail establishment for customers, but rather a stopping place for messengers and coaches.

[mithrilian.livejournal.com]

No building/no roof? Yes, there were post stations, like everywhere in Europe, but it was stables with post horses. Почтовая станция with a станционный смотритель (http://rvb.ru/pushkin/01text/06prose/01prose/0861.htm)

[oryx_and_crake]

Speaking of a country is usually "в стране", and of an island, "на острове". Thus, "в России", but "на Кипре", "на Кубе".

[dragon-flying.livejournal.com]

if it's important that you have to go inside it's usually "в" - в театре, в офисе
if it's outside or can take place both inside or outside it's на - на работе (you can work anywhere *sigh*) на празднике (you can party anywhere too!), на улице
that's how we get я иду в офис на работу. я иду в театр на спектакль.
+exceptions that were already listed above на вокзале, на почте, на стадионе

[o-jovem-louco.livejournal.com]

There actually IS a couple of dictionaries that indicate this kind of stuff, but they are way less comfortable to use. Google does the best.

You might also want to check out http://www.ruscorpora.ru/search-main.html, where it is possible to make some more complex queries.

[lillilah]

Oh, that looks really interesting! I'll definitely check it out!

[lillilah]

Thanks, everyone! This has been so helpful!