Буква "Ы" / Letter "Ы"

[morfizm.livejournal.com]

У меня есть двое американцев, интересующиеся русским произношением.

Пытаюсь научить их правильным звукам. Некоторые звуки даются с большим трудом. В частности, Ы.

Как объяснить произношение буквы Ы?

Кто-нибудь знает хорошие материалы для "русского как иностранного" по этой теме (произношение звуков)? Желательно с упражнениями, картинками, куда конкретно язык за зубы прятать и т.п.

* * *

I have two Americans, who are interested in Russian pronunciation.

I am trying to teach them the correct sounds. Some sounds come really hard. In particular, "Ы".

How to explain the pronunciation of letter "Ы"?
Does anybody know any good materials for "Russian as a second language" on this topic (pronunciation of sounds)? Preferably with exercises, pictures, where exactly you should put your tongue behind your teeth, etc.

Comments

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

I would love to remind that the working language in this community is English. Thank you for your contribution.

[pogodda.livejournal.com]

мне кажется, что самый простой способ для объяснения - сказать, что произносится как "и", только нижняя челюсть опускается ниже.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

1. That's not exactly how it's pronounced. 2. I would love to remind that the working language in this community is English. Thank you for your contribution.

[pogodda.livejournal.com]

I'm awfully sorry.
Shame on me.

[towarysc.livejournal.com]

It's not "ы", it's "э".

[pogodda.livejournal.com]

At first you pronounce "i", then you get your jaw a bit lower and still try to say "i", it would not be "э"

[towarysc.livejournal.com]

When you lower your jaw, you make vowel more open, while to get "ы" out of "и", you need to make it more back. View this chart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowels#Articulation).

[pogodda.livejournal.com]

OK, OK, please don't shoot me!

[emperor-spock.livejournal.com]

Although I'm not sure if it'll work with Americans (not with all of them, that's for sure), but you can try to ask them to pronounce the BIRD vowel and then advance the lower jaw a little.

pronounciation

You should probably check how the word is pronounced. Might help if you want to write it correctly.

[morfizm.livejournal.com]

RE pronunciation - thanks, fixed!

[llz.livejournal.com]

sorry for the English. i once heard a classmate say that his teacher explained it this way: it's the sound you make when someone in front of you has thrusted a saber right in your stomach (then motion stabbing a large knife into your own stomach while saying "Ы!").

i know it sounds crazy but give it a try. at least they'll have something to remember from your lessons :)

[llz.livejournal.com]

oh, then a teacher had us do this tongue-twister:

Мама мыла Милу мылом, Мила мыло не любила

annoying but helpful

[alex-rex.livejournal.com]

Otto von Bismarck learned this sound using "От топота копыт пыль по полю летит"

[olydiagron.livejournal.com]

no! a soft L after the Ы is inpossible to pronounce! i have tried for 15 years!

[spiritrc.livejournal.com]

You probably pronounce 'ы' somehow terribly wrong if it hampers you from pronouncing a soft 'л' after it. :) IMO, those sounds are completely not connected in "пыль". It's like "пы" separately, and then "ль" separately again, but the pause between those parts is quite short. Can you pronounce a soft L on it's own?

[captainhighwind.livejournal.com]

Like [ ɪ ] (as in 'ring') with moving your jaw forward a bit.

[skagenij.livejournal.com]

this

[miram.livejournal.com]

Я однажды научил (швейцарца) так: высунуть нижнюю челюсть до упора вперед и в такой позиции произнести "и". Получилось довольно похоже.

[tisoi.livejournal.com]

This is pretty old, but I used this: http://www.amazon.com/How-Pronounce-Russian-Correctly-Book/dp/084424287X

As for Ы, it occurs in American English (see this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_central_unrounded_vowel)), but as an unstressed sound.

It's found in the following words (I bolded the appropriate vowel[s]):

topic
Russian
houses
mentio
sonic
attic
tepid
Christmas

There might be some variation, but it is distinct from the vowel in the word "it" or the vowel in "bun." The difference is subtle to American ears, but we tend to think of it either as a schwa-like sound or a short-"i"-like sound

[tisoi.livejournal.com]

oops, one of them should be "mention."

Since it's an unstressed sound in English, it's short. So have them elongate the song. Exagerrate it.

[morfizm.livejournal.com]

Thanks, ordered the book.

[duzzy-puzzle.livejournal.com]

ask your students to smile and bite their finger (put the finger parallel the lips). and then ask them to pronounce russian [и]

[sibir-muzhyk.livejournal.com]

"She" has pretty good "ы". :-)

[vovanium.livejournal.com]

When pronounced by russian? ;)

[sibir-muzhyk.livejournal.com]

At least it explained the "Ы"'s pronunciation to american guy.

[new-intell.livejournal.com]

There is very simple exercise. To pronounce Russian У and in this position and stretch lips.

[orange-melon.livejournal.com]

There are two ways to do it:
1) Pronounce "У" and then then stretch lips into a wide smile, without changing the position of jaws and tongue
2) Pronounce "И" and then pull the tongue back deep into the mouth (or pull it down as much as possible)

[dekarmi.livejournal.com]

to download an adiofile with this sound and repeat

[towarysc.livejournal.com]

"u" as in "put", but unrounded.

[tisoi.livejournal.com]

Careful, if they're from the west coast it's pretty much unrounded. And it's not quite the sound in Russian

[4-solnca.livejournal.com]

Im sorry, but I can answer only in Russian.

Самое обыкновенное фонетическое упражнение, .
Берете ручку (каранндаш, ложку) и зажимаете ее зубами, Как бы это сказать, поперек. Причем стараясь ее продвинуть как можно дальше к задним зубам.
В таком положении, не касаясь языком ручки, пытаетесь произнести звук И. Но у вас непроизвольно получится Ы. Надо запомнить этот звук и потом тренироваться произносить его без ручки.

[olydiagron.livejournal.com]

wow! That works.

[pro100-petrov.livejournal.com]

And train them till they will be able to say Эльгыгытгын (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AD%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B3%D1%8B%D0%B3%D1%8B%D1%82%D0%B3%D1%8B%D0%BD) :)

[alia142.livejournal.com]

I'm in the Peace Corps in Ukraine; our Russian teacher had us punch our stomach to make that sound. :) It worked; Ukrainians are finally satisfied with the way I say it, haha. I saw that someone else wrote the same thing up above, but I just wanted to say that it was actually really helpful.

[julia-kroyter.livejournal.com]

Очень удобно ставить этот звук после звука "к"
ккккккыыыыы

[metodika-rki.livejournal.com]

Подробный ответ с упражнениями http://metodika-rki.livejournal.com/26346.html