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Not a native speaker. Autocorrect snached the word native:)

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dair-spb.livejournal.com

I don't really see any connection. "Кот и собака": hard consonant then a softening vowel, ergo, vowel changes to non-softening.

"Дверь сломали": soft consonant ("рь"), then hard consonant. Nothing similar.

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And is that velarized or palatilized?

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It does. But what does it have to do with the pronunciation of "Дверь сломали", which doesn't have neither unstressed "и", nor "c" is palatalized in the other phrase in the first place.

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It isn't. BTW, repeating the same question in the same words is seen as rude in Russian, as it makes you appear as if you don't care about other people are saying and pursue you gaol mindlessly like a robot.

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Well it is a different case, thats why I asked, I obviously knew the rule about hard consonants affecting following vowels, but i didn't know if the same thing happend when a consonant followed a soft consonant.

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dair-spb.livejournal.com

As non-linguistic person I cannot tell you the rule.

But as Russian-native I can definitely say "no" to your starting answer :-)

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Christ... Give me the whole rule then: when does the velarization or palatalization rub off between words, and in what direction?

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Thanks! That means I have to practice :(.

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It's actually rather easy: consonants are only ever modified by following letters and never by preceding. It also doesn't carry across word border, as far as I can remember..

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I am not a native english speaker and tried to correct my wrongspelling of the word velarized. Yes my goal was to get the answer to my question in order to improve my Russian. I do persue that goal with quite a stubborness. From experience I know it is good to ask a few people.
If you think I am rude, don't patronize me with stories about particular Russian rules of behaviour, just say so.

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Thanks! I have to practice on that:((( But it it always nice ro identify ekat I can work
On in my pronounsiation. Thanks!

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No, I don't mean that you are rude. I just try to warn you that you may seem so to people, and explain why it is so. If someone doesn't answer your question it most probably means that they just don't know the answer, and asking again and again won't bring it sooner. Anyway, if my explanation seem patronizing to you -- sorry, didn't mean that. Just trying to be helpful.

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You're welcome.

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surkova.livejournal.com

I didn't hear that ;) or maybe just didn't pay attention
you do have a little problem with л vs ль, especially in the middle of the words (like только, солнце), but in most cases I see what you mean and can get you right ;)

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:) but that is not tipycally Russian I think. I didn't mean to ask the same question twice, i just unsuccesfully tried to alter the spelling.:( It ALMOST works to use this forum in à phone, but...

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In LJ if you don't have a paid account you cannot edit your comments, only delete them. Editing comments is a paying user's privilege. ;)

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I know... I know how it is suppose to sound - but it is like athletics for the tongue, or like putting your feet right when you dance. It so hard!

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acuzena.livejournal.com

Just relax, I´m a Spanish linguist and a native Russian speaker, but I have no idea how do you think those s differ. You don´t get answer, because we don´t divide them so as far as I know))
S can be voiced (сбить) or voiceless (сломали), I think that's it.
In my opinion s sounds are pronouned equally in both your examples:
Кот и собака | дверь сломали.

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emperor-spock.livejournal.com

To add a little linguistic snobbery to what khathi has said, it is regressive assimilation, and while I can't provide you with any serious references on this case of assimilation in Russian, in all the samples that come to my mind it is regressive (or non-existent):

Say, for plosive voiceless velarised /к/ in /как/

ка/к/ пень -- (none)
ка/г/ груз -- (regresssive)
ка/к'/ пешка -- (regresssive)
ка/г/ бистро -- (regresssive)
ка/к/ сталь -- (none)
ка/г/ золото -- (regressive)
ка/к/ широко -- (none)
ка/г/ жутко -- (regressive)

As you see it is all regressive (if present) and goes along the lines of altering palatalisation and voicing of the preceding consonant.

It doesn't seem to happen with sonants/sonorants:
ка/к/ Маша
ка/к/ мило
ка/к/ нос
ка/к/ няня
ка/к/ лошадь
ка/к/ лямка
ка/к/ рожа
ка/к/ ряса
ка/к/ яшма

And I don't think anything happens to these if they are in the preceding position either (like in your sample).

The "кот /ы/ собака" you've mentioned is simple partial reduction, because of the vowel's being unstressed.

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surkova.livejournal.com

haha
tell me about athletics for the tongue :))) swedish is my pain, you know

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lion-casserole.livejournal.com

.
Вас, видимо, смущает мягкий знак, предшествующий букве "с" в этом словосочетании. Вот, смотрите, в слове "сломаться" есть две буквы "с" и мягкий знак перед одной из них. А вот тут можно найти пример звучания этого слова:

http://dict.rambler.ru/?coll=4.0er&query=%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8C%D1%81%D1%8F

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Very simple reason: с is velarised BECAUSE л is velarised.

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vowel controls the chain of preceding consonants

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compare слякоть - both c and л are palatalised, controlled by я.

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oryx_and_crake

If by palatalisation you mean that c is softened then you are wrong and it is not. Do you really pronounce it "сьлякоть"?

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malinguo.livejournal.com

Hi there.

If you really want to know the rule, you're unlikely to find it here--palatalization assimilation is variable, and it depends on dialect and age. There is some discussion here:

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=5150140

As far as how consonants affect vowels and vice versa, the best resource I can recommend (in English) is this:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/vm297lj2220x26t7/

The short story is, despite what the orthography would lead you to believe (and some comments above), the palatalization of the consonant determines the frontness of the vowel, not the other way around. There are a few morphological contexts where vowel-initial (and sometimes consonant-initial) suffixes cause a palatalization change on the preceding consonant, as in черт-черти, but for the most part, the phonological generalization is a pretty robust one.

In my observation, consonant clusters in the speech of modern Moscow Russians do not assimilate in palatalization very much, with the only exception being clusters of coronals. Palatalization does not assimilate in consonant clusters across the word boundary at all, as far as I know.

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wolk-off.livejournal.com

It is not.

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wolk-off.livejournal.com

Well, OK, T in кот is not palatalized, right? That's why и becomes ы. If it's мать и собака, T is palatalized all right, и does not modify, and С in собака stays as it is in both cases.

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wolk-off.livejournal.com

с in слякоть is not palatalized. Where you're form? ;-)

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