С нами и со мной

[gnomygnomy.livejournal.com]

Hello again! Today after class my friend asked me if I wanted to go to the movies with her tonight. When she asked, she used с нами and not со мной, but there wasn't anyone else going at that point. I tried to correct her and she said that's how they say it, even when it's only one person so far who's going. Is that right?

UPDATE: Thanks, everyone! She still thinks she's right, but now I know not to put much stock into what she says.

Comments

[oryx_and_crake]

I don't think this is correct. She can say мы пойдем meaning you and her, but she cannot say с нами if she is the only other person going.

[gnomygnomy.livejournal.com]

I didn't think it was right, either. But she was pretty resolute on the issue, so I had to at least ask people who would know better than either of us. Thanks! :)

[w-wolfram.livejournal.com]

Only if she is a member of the royal family (which is doubtful).

[russian-bob.livejournal.com]

Or she has an imaginary friend.

[russian-bob.livejournal.com]

Some like it hot:
- It will be just two of us.
- Two of you?

I don't think your friend can say "Пойдешь с нами?" meaning that it will be just you and her, "с нами" definitely means that there are at least 2 people besides you.

[gnomygnomy.livejournal.com]

:)

It didn't sound right to me. If it is a legitimate usage in that context (and I don't think it is), I feel like I'd have heard of it by now. Something that quirky wouldn't escape my notice, or any of my teachers', for that matter.

[olga-mukhortova.livejournal.com]

what exactly did she say? could you write it here?

Exactly so. :)

[gnomygnomy.livejournal.com]

"Ты хочешь ходить в кино с нами?"

"Кто 'с нами'?"

"я."

"Тогда 'со мной'."

"нет, так не говорят с глаголами движения."

Re: Exactly so. :)

[olga-mukhortova.livejournal.com]

well
I think her construction was a little different
if she is a Russian native speaker
may be, "пойдем в кино"?

ok) she is non-native speaker, so the model could be

пойдем в кино со мной it is polite imperative but it is in plural

[gnomygnomy.livejournal.com]

She's not a native speaker of Russian, but a student like me. We're in the same class, actually. Deep down I hope I don't make these same kind of egregious errors, but it's probable.

[cassandraclue.livejournal.com]

this is why i don't speak Russian with other learners of Russian ;)

Re: Exactly so. :)

[oryx_and_crake]

she might have been confused by пойдем which takes a plural here

Re: Exactly so. :)

[emperor-spock.livejournal.com]

Although I fail to see any relation between certain verbs and the grammatical number of pronouns, the 'verbs denoting movements' thing sounds like a poorly understood rule (of sorts. It's not that anything comes to my mind).

I wonder what other phrases your fellow student would provide to exemplify this rule of hers.

Re: Exactly so. :)

[oryx_and_crake]

Another thing worth mentioning. Хочешь ходить в кино implies that the action is supposed to be repetitive, e.g. Мы будем ходить в кино по пятницам. If this was supposed to be a one-time occurrence, she should have said "хочешь пойти со мной в кино?"

Re: Exactly so. :)

[la-dy-ashley.livejournal.com]

Technically your dialog should go,

Ты хочешь сходить/пойти в кино с нами?"

"Кто с кем 'с нами'?"

"я со мной."

[emperor-spock.livejournal.com]

I've never heard it before, and it's definitely non-standard.

Also, who's "they"? Is the person in question a native speaker? Any background?

[gnomygnomy.livejournal.com]

Another student in my class, so I'm not easily given to taking her word on Russian language matters. She was very adamant about it, though. She spent the last year living in Moscow as an English teacher, and that's where she said she got her intel. By her own account, she didn't learn much, but she holds fast to what she did learn, such as this. :\

[zellily.livejournal.com]

Может быть, в России она никогда не ходила в кино вдвоём с кем-нибудь ? Только втроём, вчетвером, впятером...

Давай будем ходить в кино вместе

[lion-casserole.livejournal.com]

.
I guess your classmate was confused by these valid expressions:

- Ты хочешь пойти в кино вместе с нами?
- Ты хочешь пойти в кино вместе?
- Ты хочешь пойти в кино вместе со мной?


BTW, in the above citation (* Jun. 23rd, 2011 09:28 pm *) there are some faults.

- Ты хочешь ходить в кино с нами?
- С кем это - с нами?
- Со мною.
- В этом случае нужно говорить "Ты хочешь ходить в кино со мною?" или "Ты хочешь ходить в кино вместе?"

Re: Давай будем ходить в кино вместе

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

>В этом случае нужно говорить "Ты хочешь ходить в кино со мною?"

Do not mislead people :)
Ты хочешь ходить в кино со мною (actually, со мной, "мною" is too bookish for colloquial speech) means "do you want to always go/ keep on going to the movies with me". If we speak about one-time occurency, it's пойти, not ходить (perfective vs. imperfective form.)

Айда в кино!

[lion-casserole.livejournal.com]

.
Да, если предстоит однократное действие, то, конечно, должно быть:

- Давая сегодня вместе сходим в кино.
- Давай сегодня пойдем в кино вместе.
- Ты не хочешь сходить сегодня со мной в кино?
- Я собираюсь пойти в кино, не хочешь составить компанию?
- Я иду в кино, есть лишний билет, ты не хочешь составить мне компанию?


Но тут изначально разговор зашел о "с нами" vs "со мной", и в исходном диалоге был использован глагол "ходить", что значит приглашение на неопределенный срок - "сегодня и в другие дни". Как вариант, может оказаться, что та (или тот), кто предлагает, сегодня идет в кино одна (один), но обычно делает это в компании из нескольких человек, и приглашает присоединиться к этой компании:

- Ты хочешь ходить в кино с нами?
- С кем это - с нами?
- Сегодня - только со мной, но обычно мы ходим втроем - я, Маша и Петрович.

По поводу "со мной" и "со мною". "Со мной" - имеет оттенок выделения себя из группы или главенствования (я, и со мной - четверо студентов; Слушай меня, за мной - бегом, марш!), "со мною" - "включая и меня на общих основаниях" (со мною - пять человек).

Тут, вообще, в различных формулировках можно увидеть массу нюансов. "Пойти" - может значить "отправиться вместе", не это еще не значит, что у приглашающего есть намерение сидеть вместе в зале кинотеатра, вместе вернуться, etc.


* * *

ПОЖАР В АРХИТЕКТУРНОМ ИНСТИТУТЕ

[...]
...Все выгорело начисто.
Милиции полно.
Все - кончено!
Все - начато!
Айда в кино!

Андрей Вознесенский, 1957

http://www.litera.ru/stixiya/authors/voznesenskij/pozhar-v-arxitekturnom.html

Re: Айда в кино!

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Thank you for your massive contribution. However, I would like to remind that the working language in this community is English, for the sake of learners of Russian in the early stages of their study; therefore all posts and/or comments in Russian are expected to be translated in English as well.

Sorry, re-wording that

[lion-casserole.livejournal.com]

.
I am re-phrasing my previous post, as required.

Well, if that is an invitation for a one-time visit, then it should sound like:

- Давай сегодня вместе сходим в кино.
- Давай сегодня пойдем в кино вместе.
- Ты не хочешь сходить сегодня со мной в кино?
- Я собираюсь пойти в кино, не хочешь составить компанию?
- Я иду в кино, есть лишний билет, ты не хочешь составить мне компанию?

My excuse for "ходить" in my earlier examples is: the original question was re the usage of "с нами" vs "со мной", and in the provided model-conversation the verb "ходить" was engaged. That "ходить" means (to me) that the invitation was actually for long term activity (for today/tonight and suitable occasions in the future). As an option, it is possible that there is a company and the actual invitation is to join the company while no other companion is presented this time:

- Ты хочешь ходить в кино с нами?
- С кем это - с нами?
- Сегодня - только со мной, но обычно мы ходим втроем - я, Маша и Петрович.


Now, speaking regarding "со мной" and "со мною". These expressions are really close in meaning, however "со мной" - adds the color of "This time I pretend being the inviting person or the group leader", "Would you like to join me?" (я, и со мной - четверо студентов; за мной - бегом, марш!), while "со мною" - means "I am a regular member of the group", "Let's decide what to do together" (у нас - компания, со мною - пять человек).

One could find a lot of nuances in these expressions, e.g. "пойдем вместе" - could mean "Let's go to the movie theater together", while there is no guarantee that is an invitation to watch the movie sitting next to each other.

* * *

And here is an example of non-formal invitation. I am not sure the word "айда" could be found in academic schoolbooks, however it is pretty usual in informal invitations:

ПОЖАР В АРХИТЕКТУРНОМ ИНСТИТУТЕ

[...]
...Все выгорело начисто.
Милиции полно.
Все - кончено!
Все - начато!
Айда в кино!

Андрей Вознесенский, 1957

Re: Давай будем ходить в кино вместе

[silver-sviter.livejournal.com]

"Со мною" sounds a bit old-fashioned.

Re: Давай будем ходить в кино вместе

[lion-casserole.livejournal.com]

.
http://learn-russian.livejournal.com/1027156.html?thread=15638100#t15638100

Re: Давай будем ходить в кино вместе

[silver-sviter.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah, theoretically. But again in real life it may sound strange and bookish.

Re: Давай будем ходить в кино вместе

[4-solnca.livejournal.com]

Sorry, but why Ходить? There and back? alwase? everyday?
Сходить или пойти!! Only perfect form!

Re: Давай будем ходить в кино вместе

[lion-casserole.livejournal.com]

.
http://learn-russian.livejournal.com/1027156.html?thread=15638100#t15638100

[sart2003.livejournal.com]

You can explain your friend, that Пойдем со мной = Come with me (with only me :)) and Пойдем с нами = Come with us (with several people). In fact, her phrase should be: "Хочешь пойти со мной в кино?" if I understood situation correctly

[ember-cyprus.livejournal.com]

She might be confusing it with the use of plural in this case: "Мы с тобой пойдем в кино", meaning "You and I", and not "you and we".

[erekrose.livejournal.com]

That's what I was thinking.

[vlad-why.livejournal.com]

+ 1
Looks very much like it.
"Мы с тобой" - I remember how at a very young age, probably 3, when I was still learning the language, I used to get bewildered by this phrase every time I heard grown-ups say it - for the same very reason: how can "we adn you" stand for "me and you"?
But then I just got used to it, I guess :)

But still, i find it perfectly reasonable that learners of Russian as a second language find it confusing too.

[iwantsleeep.livejournal.com]

Yeah, right form is: "со мной" =)

[taurvat.livejournal.com]

Can you give the full phrase? Otherwise it's hard to judge. She might have said something like "Пойдём в кино? С нами больше никто не пойдёт." for example, which would be perfectly valid.

[orie.livejournal.com]

she's wrong

[mikeybeerloving.livejournal.com]

It certainly should've been 'со мной'.

[kroshkaboo.livejournal.com]

Well, tell her that "с нами" means "with us", it should set it right)