Russian Culture & History

[wordchick.livejournal.com]

Hello all,

I am very fond of this community, since the members are truly helpful (and have some of the fastest reaction time I've seen on LJ!). I am curious, though- does anyone know another community that deals with culture and history, rather than language? I have many questions I'd like to ask on those topics, but I suspect they don't really fall within the domain of this forum. Any suggestions? The only thing I've seen on LJ is the community below, and it doesn't seem nearly as active as this one. Thank you very much!

http://community.livejournal.com/russophiles/profile

P.S. And to keep this post somewhat relevant– what is the difference between обручение and помолвка? Before today, I'd only ever seen the former, but RIA Novosti used the latter to refer to what is between Prince William of the U.K. and Kate Middleton.

Comments

[pro100-petrov.livejournal.com]

What do you mean by culture and history? Ask here, we shell try to answer

[wordchick.livejournal.com]

I don't know- the moderators are very intent on keeping this a language-only forum. I have specific questions about Soviet history that probably require LONG answers. I'd really rather do it somewhere else- I just don't know where. :(

[pro100-petrov.livejournal.com]

Ask here, becouse the answer depends on what kind of things from Soviet history you interested in

[wordchick.livejournal.com]

They're not linguistic :)

Very well, then. I am trying to determine what civil law enforcement looked like during WWII in Soviet territories (i.e. Belarus, Ukraine, the areas in Russia that were occupied- maybe also the Baltics, but I'm mostly interested in Slavic countries). Did Nazis do all the police work, or was there local law enforcement as well? If there was local law enforcement, was it all made up of collaborators? I know the situation was quite different from what happened in Western Europe, but I'm having difficulty finding information on this topic either from the Internet or the lending libraries. Of course, this may be because 'civil law' was nonexistent during that time, but I'd like to know that concretely.

I also apologize if this offends anyone. As much as all the Slavs I know love to discuss history, this is a topic that can be quite sensitive as well.

[pro100-petrov.livejournal.com]

Yes, there was a local police (so-called polizei - полицаи) Unfortunately the English-speaking communities on this subject I do not know. Try to ask here http://community.livejournal.com/ww2/profile

>I also apologize if this offends anyone
What do you mean?

>the Slavs love to discuss history
Realy? I had no idea.

[wordchick.livejournal.com]

You and I probably do not know the same Slavs :)

I only meant that the history of WWII can be a painful topic. I have no idea how my question might offend anyone, but the Internet makes it easy to upset people by accident.

Thank you for your suggestions!

[khathi.livejournal.com]

There are generally no "painful" topics, that is, the topics that are absolutely taboo. But there are a LOT of topics, which are grounds for a flamewar. ;) So you may discuss most anything, but be prepared: you may got flamed from every angle. Ever read YouTube comments section? Expect something alike. ;)

[khathi.livejournal.com]

The civil law enforcement did exist, and was mostly done by the local population. Nazi set up a network of police station, staffed mostly by local collaborators, supported by garrison detachments in most important nodes. I'm not sure, but IIRC they enforced a rather mix-and-match kind of law, cobbled together from German laws and pre-Revolution Russian laws. After the war most of these collaborators were tried, but, which is somewhat ironic, if they weren't implicated in serious crimes, like aiding and abetting in Nazi racial purges, most received rather mild sentences, ranging between 5-7 years.

[wordchick.livejournal.com]

Thank you, this was very helpful!

[pro100-petrov.livejournal.com]

No difference at all between обручение and помолвка

[4px.livejournal.com]

+1
maybe,
обручение - rings changing
помолвка - announcement

but in common case - there is no difference.

[pro100-petrov.livejournal.com]

No.

Обручение
(сговор, помолвка) — предварительный договор о заключении брака Энциклопедический словарь Ф.А. Брокгауза и И.А. Ефрона. — С.-Пб.: Брокгауз-Ефрон. 1890—1907.

[4px.livejournal.com]

in fact обручение == помолвка. But i think, обручение origins from "договор", "по рукам" and "помолвка" from "разглашать молву".

[pro100-petrov.livejournal.com]

No, again. Помолвка from молвить (сказать, попросить). On the day of помолвка, groom, with the agreement of the girl's father, presents the beloved ring and asked whether she agrees to become his wife.

[4px.livejournal.com]

nevertheless, обручение is a ceremony of rings changing and making deal, and помолвка is a declaration of intentions. The first is intimate process, the second is public.

[wordchick.livejournal.com]

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for that explanation. It is now clear why RIA Novosti would prefer помолвка.

[4px.livejournal.com]

No-no. RIA Novosti could use "обручение" instead "помолвка". There is no difference now. I just described my opinion on historical origins of those words.
In modern russian "обручение" == "помолвка".

[not-to-get-it.livejournal.com]

I think there is no difference.
It is interesting to investigate the origin of these words.
Обручение is рука об руку (hand in hand).
About помолвка. In the old days used молвить, today use говорить.
Помолвка = договор, сговор.

[pro100-petrov.livejournal.com]

Да, вообще, верно. "Просить" и "молвить" (и даже "вымолвить") все-таки разные слова. "Говорить" - правильный синоним.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Thank you for your contribution. However, let me remind you that the working language in this community is English. It is OK to post or comment in Russian, but you are expected to provide translation (as we have many beginner Russian learners, who cannot otherwise benefit from your contribution).

[pro100-petrov.livejournal.com]

Sorry. "Просить" and "молвить" are different words. Говорить - the correct synonym

[dmitryviewshkin.livejournal.com]

ОБРУЧЕ́НИЕ, -я, ср. Обряд, во время которого надевают кольца жениху и невесте. [Кити] совсем почти не понимала слов службы и даже не слушала их во время обручения. Л. Толстой, Анна Каренина. || То же, что помолвка.

ПОМО́ЛВКА, -и, ж. Обряд объявления кого-л. женихом и невестой. Созвали соседей, сделали помолвку, обручили жениха с невестой, заставили поцеловаться, посадили рядочком за стол. С. Аксаков, Семейная хроника.

I might be wrong about this, but it looks like обручение is more a religious event, taking place in a church, while помолвка is more civil.

[dmitryviewshkin.livejournal.com]

plus the ring thing

[pro100-petrov.livejournal.com]

Defenetly, not. Muslims also have обручение.

[wordchick.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I am curious- what dictionary did you use for these example sentences? Is it Dahl? I used to have a link to his dictionary, but I changed computers recently :(

[dmitryviewshkin.livejournal.com]

http://feb-web.ru/

Справочные разделы>Словари, энциклопедии>СЛОВАРЬ РУССКОГО ЯЗЫКА В 4 Т. (МАС)

[russian-kraeved.livejournal.com]

http://community.livejournal.com/ru_history/

[nowhere-person.livejournal.com]

I also can notice that the community's profile contains many links to other Russian-speaking LJ communities dedicated to specific epochs and events in history, both Russian and world.

[wordchick.livejournal.com]

Thank you, this is an interesting suggestion. My Russian is not near fluent, but I suspect people will forgive me.

Do You Know About English Russia?

[pastilla.livejournal.com]

I have English Russia (http://www.englishrussia.com) on my RSS feed; it is a really light, fun and interesting site if you are interested in Russian culture and history. Lots of variety there.

NOTE: There are annoying pop-ups and some pretty funky "related" sites on the pages, but for me, worth it.

Re: Do You Know About English Russia?

[wordchick.livejournal.com]

I did not know about this site. Thank you for introducing me.