Russian soft consonants

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

I just got back a phonetics assignment where we had to transcribe Russian words from a recording. My instructor doesn't speak Russian and graded according to a key, so she couldn't answer my questions about the parts that were marked wrong.

I've uploaded some small sound files and if any native speakers would be willing to listen to them and answer my questions, I would really appreciate it.

1. Clip 1: Is this woman saying будь, буд, or something else?

2. Clip 2: I've removed the last part of this word so that you don't know what it's supposed to be. Did she say ди or джи?

3. Clip 3: Again, I've removed the last part of this word. Is she saying чу or тю?

4. I can't provide a sound file for this one. When you hear the syllables си and сы, do you perceive the difference between them to be in the consonant, in the vowel, or in both?

Edit: Thank you for your help, everyone! I'm much less confused now than I was.

Comments

[oryx_and_crake]

1. there is definitely no softness
2. "ди". I'd say that the "дж" combination of sounds is not very typical for Russian language anyway.
3. sounds like "кю" to me

[oryx_and_crake]

4. I think both, but then I am not a linguist and it is well known that native speakers are notoriously bad in explaining the workings of their own language

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

2. "ди". I'd say that the "дж" combination of sounds is not very typical for Russian language anyway.

The problem I'm having with this homework is that the soft consonants often are affricated, and I'm expected to transcribe those as affricates--but if Russian speakers can tell the difference between ди and джи, тю and чу, then clearly they shouldn't be transcribed the same way.

[oryx_and_crake]

Sorry, I don't even know what affricate is, so cannot help you on that.
What I don't understand and am curious about is, how can your instructor teach you Russian pronunciation if she does not speak Russian.

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

It's not a Russian-language class. It's a phonetics class. We listen to a lot of different sound samples from various languages to try to transcribe the sounds, and the last homework just happened to have Russian on it. It's important to get that exposure, but since no one can speak all of the languages we listen to, the instructor has to rely on an accurate textbook.

Basically, I got marked off because I transcribed дь and ть too broadly, but I didn't think that the suggestions for correcting it were right either, because that would make them into ч, ц or дж.

[oryx_and_crake]

I see.

[phoonzang.livejournal.com]

1. I would suggest that a non-native speaker of Russian is saying «бут», but there's too much stress on the «т» sound for my personal taste, a bit like in the british "but"
2. «ди»
3. «тю»
4. in both, but the difference in the consonant is much more subtle than in the vowel, at least for my ears

[ksana.livejournal.com]

1 - sounds more like "быт"
2 - definitely "ди"
3 - not clear - but more тю than чу for sure.
4 - i can be wrong but for me it sounds like in both

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

1 - sounds more like "быт"

I think you're right, that this is what she's actually saying. I put down /but/ (бут) and it wasn't marked off, so it didn't occur to me that I'd gotten the vowel wrong.

[blacloud.livejournal.com]

1. быт - way of life; living conditions
2. ди
3. цу

[karakal.livejournal.com]

What I hear are:
1 - бут
2 - ди
3 - hard to say; can be both.

But in the first two cases I'm nearly 100% sure. Of course, may be wrong, though :)

[orie.livejournal.com]

4. both (I'm not sure what I perceive, but I've seen phonetic diagrams during my university course, and difference is both in the vowel and in the consonant).

[bartoli.livejournal.com]

1.быт
2. джи
3. hard to say;
native speaker???I do not think so.

[chreesko.livejournal.com]

I'm not a phoneticist or a native speaker so this may be completely unhelpful, but I was always taught that when pronouncing consonants that are followed by a soft vowel, the tongue should be touching the roof of the mouth, and when pronouncing consonants that are followed by a hard vowel, the tongue should be at the bottom of the mouth. In that case, the difference can be heard in both vowel and consonant.

Of course, "с" is one of the only letters where I can't hear a difference between hard and soft.

[freedomcry.livejournal.com]

4. Both. But in linguistic terms, the difference between the consonants is considered phonemic and the one between vowels, allophonic.

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

I'm doing a phonetic transcription rather than a phonemic one, or this would be muuuuuuch easier.

the difference between the consonants is considered phonemic and the one between vowels, allophonic.

I've seen it argued both ways (and other ways!) by linguists.

[freedomcry.livejournal.com]

To be honest, I had a "wait, what?" moment after posting this. I guess I'm guilty of trying to pass the theory I like better for What Science Tells Us.

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

I think I would probably agree that ы is an allophonic variation of и after "hard" consonants, based on the fact that ы can't occur at the beginning of a word*, but maybe the guys on the other side have a point? I don't know, I haven't really investigated.

* Several years ago, when I was learning Russian phonology, my professor mentioned an exception, but he didn't think it was that important because it was weird somehow (maybe a really recent loan?). I wish I could remember what it was.

[letnja-kisha.livejournal.com]

4. I think it's both. the reason I think that is because I also speak Serbian and there the си doesn't sound like the Russian си (the difference is slight, but it's there). and in Serbian the c never gets softened and they don't have ы.

[gailochka.livejournal.com]

1) Probably "быт"
2) "ди"
3) I hear something like "тсю" (or "тю")

4) I think both. I guess the "pair" "И"-"Ы" is different from other vowel pairs like "Я" - "А" - in the latter case "Я" consists of two sounds, "й" and "а", but "И" is not at all like "йы", it's a separate sound. But it does make the preceding consonant soft.

(Those are my amateur contemplations, i'm not a professional linguist).

[russtam.livejournal.com]

1) "быт", but a bit like "бут"
2) "ди"
3) "тю", but a bit like "цю"

Who want have practice in Russian?

[y-nichick.livejournal.com]

Hi. i have studied English for 1 year, and i search people who try learn Russian for have practice. I have many people in skype and msn who want study Russian but nobody don't want have practice everyday in language. I think it's very usefull speak with native speaker in language wich you study. i want help in russian everyone! let me know if someone want have practice in russian everyday with me! I am from Russia.