Verbs of motion (which I hate)

[david-us.livejournal.com]

Again, on my audio CD, I was required to translate this sentence: "I drove myself to Moscow."

I translated it as: "Я сам ехал в Москву." (I considered that поехал might be more appropriate.)

I was surprised to discover that the correct translation was: "Я сам ездил в Москву."

The use of the verb ездить seems to contradict everything I've ever learned about verbs of motion.

Ездить is for repetitive/habitual activity or it would be used for a round trip, perhaps. Or it could be used when no particular direction is implied.

I don't see how it could be used in this sentence that is describing a one-way trip to a specific location that occurred only one time.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Comments

[alamar.livejournal.com]

"Я сам ездил в Москву" makes zero sense for a native speaker.

"Я ездил в Москву" - I've been to Moscow.
"Я сам ездил в Москву" - I've been to Moscow, myself (!?!?!?)

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

try interpreting сам as один or самостоятельно (that is, without anybody's help) or вместо кого-то or чтобы воочию убедиться в чем-то (to get first-hand experience/facts) and suddenly it makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure that's the context, though.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

>try interpreting сам as один

That's quite Ukrainian or, at least, Southern dialectal (as in был дома сам = был дома один).

Самостоятельно is another story: после того, как мне сказали, что в Москве есть дурацкий памятник Петру Первому, я сам ездил в Москву и убедился, что памятник действительно дурацкий (after I've been told that there was a stupid Peter I monument in Moscow, I drove there myself and made certain it was really a stupid one.)

[alexzzzzz.livejournal.com]

"Я сам ездил в Москву" makes sense:

1) I've been there. I did it by myself without someone's help.
2) I've been there. I didn't send somebody else to Moscow, but I did it myself.
3) When sombody tells you that he or she was in Moscow, you can say "Я сам ездил в Москву" and that would mean that formerly you was in Moscow too. For example:
- Был вчера в Москве. Простоял в пробке два часа. Кошмар!
- Я знаю, я сам ездил в Москву.

[alamar.livejournal.com]

Well, it only makes sense in 3) for me.

In other cases that sounds pretty unrussian.

[alexzzzzz.livejournal.com]

To me the second is apparent :)

[alamar.livejournal.com]

Well, in appropriate context, maybe.
The question is, to use this phrase you have to know what you're doing; and you can't really expect that from person listening to language cds.
I guess they'd better stick to safe phrases.

[priapic-saint.livejournal.com]

"Я сам ездил в Москву и всё видел" makes sense. Kinda 'I've been to Moscow, myself, and saw somethung with my own eyes.

[icamel.livejournal.com]

Сам ехал is excessive. Just ехал/ездил should be enough, except you want to emphasize that you drove yourself - then it should be я вел машину сам.

You are right in general, but ездил also could be used describing completed roundtrip to Moscow: "я ездил в Москву в прошлом месяце". Я съездил в Москву is more correct in this case, but more colloquial 'ездил' is used also, especially when you describe something happend during that trip: "я ездил в Москву на той неделе и видел там слона на улице".

[merry1978.livejournal.com]

If you accentuate "by myself", than the exact route may be seen as irrelevant (it doesn't matter if you went there and back or just there). In this case, you can easily say "ездил".

For understand this better, you can compare it with another verb, for example, the verb читать.

Suppose, you have a book in Russian and you read it all by yourself.

You can say "Я прочитал эту книгу сам" (I have read this book by myself), but you can also say "Я читал эту книгу сам" (I read this boook by myself). The exact semantics of the verb is not relevant; what you mean is that you hadn't any help with it. The same works for Russian.

But you can easily say "Я доехал до Москвы сам" (more or less 'I reached Moscow all by myself') if you want to accentuate that you were driving without any help.

[windy-corner.livejournal.com]

"Я сам ехал в Москву" would be continious in English - for a process in the past, 'I was driving to Moscow myself'.

ехать - one way, a process
ездить - 1/ there and back (ездил куда? is synonym. to был где); 2/have an ability to move this way (Мой сын хорошо ездит на велосипеде); 3/ chaotic movement without a particular direction (Мы много ездили по Италии)

Your context 'I drove to Moscow...' doesn't imply it was one way, it's the same as 'I went to Moscow...' with a hint you are supposed to use the verb for going by vehicle.

[david-us.livejournal.com]

To avoid the continuous meaning (i.e. was driving), this is why I considered "Я сам поехал в Москву."

[slu4ajnaya.livejournal.com]

I agree, 'Я сам ездил в Москву' does sound strange. I don't quite understand that in English either.. Does 'I drove myself to Moscow' means 'I used my car' or what?

As for the verb - ездил sounds a bit better here rather than поехал or ехал. Why? Ехал means duration of a process. E.g. Я ехал и думал о природе - I was driving and thinking about the nature.
Поехал means a kind of a short action. E.g. Я купил билет и поехал - I bought the ticket and drove (and left). Ездить is a neutral one I think. E.g. Раньше я часто ездил за границу - In the past I often travelled abroad. (something in general)

Hope this helps. It's really hard to explain as the differences are tiny and not much can be explained by grammar here. U just feel it =))

[firebottle.livejournal.com]

"ехал" means the process of driving - for example, someone from Dolgoprudnyi who just has got permis de conduire can say: "я вчера сам ехал в Москву" meaning that now he doesn't afraid of Dmitrov highway (Дмитровское шоссе) and traffic jams
"ездил" means "been there, now returned back"

[mammilla.livejournal.com]

what is the difference between "I drove to Moscow" and "I drove myself to Moscow" in English?

[priapic-saint.livejournal.com]

By the way that seems strange to me. "Я сам ездил в Москву" seems to be more about a repetitive activity in the past, made by someone on his own, that's right.

And I would translate "I drove myself to Moscow" as "Я сам ехал в Москву"

Actually, 'ездил' can be used to describe _a one-way trip to a specific location that occurred only one time_, but it requires a context. E.g. "Я сам ездил в Москву в прошлом году" (last year), or "- Где ты был? - Я ездил в Москву" (Where have you been? - I'v been to Moscow), some circumstances should be described.

Anyway, it seems like the problem is not in this exact excercise and not even in verbs of motion, it's all because of the _aspect_ (_вид_ глагола), I 'underlined' terms in English and Russian.

The same problem is described here: http://www.transparent.com/russian/brief-thoughts-on-the-russian-verb/ and i still can not find a good explanation in English.

[priapic-saint.livejournal.com]

Here is a brief one: http://russian.cornell.edu/grammar/html/gr04_d.htm

[priapic-saint.livejournal.com]

And here is a better one: http://www.russianlessons.net/grammar/verbs_aspect.php

[oryx_and_crake]

I would translate "I drove myself to Moscow" as "Я сам ехал в Москву"
---
I would not. If someone says я сам ехал, it does not say anything about the mode of transportation, while 'I drove' means that he went by the car that he owns and that he himself was driving. All this meaning is lost in "я сам ехал" which could be by train or horse or bike or anything at all.

[oryx_and_crake]

It looks like your course of Russian is not very good.

I drove myself to Moscow can only be translated as Я ездил в Москву на своей машине и сам вел ее, or something close to it.

It does not translate as Я сам ездил в Москву. Я сам ездил means that you did it on your own, no one helped you.

[arashi-opera.livejournal.com]

Sounds weird to me. I'd never translate "Я сам ездил в Москву" as "I drove myself to Moscow". Most likely I would say "I've been to Moscow myself (and seen something with my own eyes)" or "I went to Moscow by myself (without any help)". "I drove myself to Moscow" outside any context would be sort of "Я ездил в Москву на машине и сам был за рулём".