Help?

[xxblackxsatinxx.livejournal.com]

Привет!

So, we're learning different verbs and prepositional cases in my class. We're also learning the proper order in which words go.. and I was hoping for some clarification on this question.

Ты хорошо знаешь твой город?

So, I know it's asking if I know my city well. My problem is that I'm trying to form my sentence in the order that I'd be answering it in English. 'Yes, I know my city well.'

I get the feeling that's not how it would go in Russian.

Correct me if I'm wrongm the way I want to form it is,

Да, я знаю мой город хорошо.

But I'm thinking it's something along the lines of..

Да, я хорошо знаю мой город.

While I'm asking questions, do you capitalize "I" in Russian if it occurs in the middle of the sentence or do you only capitalize it if it happens at the beginning of a sentence?

Спасибо!!

Comments

[odpaam.livejournal.com]

Both are right, but there's a little nuance in their meaning. It depends of where was a logical stress in the question and accordingly in the answer.

Only personal names are capitalized in the middle of the sentence. Я is not personal name.

[icamel.livejournal.com]

Is Вы a personal name?

[baby-rhino.livejournal.com]

But we don't capitalize Вы that often, do we? ;)
Though at the moment it seems to be in fashion to capitalize it all the time. Pfui.

[icamel.livejournal.com]

But we do capitalize it, so word 'only' is an exaggeration.

[thespinningone.livejournal.com]

Word order is rather flexible in Russian, so both variants are correct, though logical stresses are a bit different.

We don't capitalize "я". :) But we do capitalize "Вы" when it's not plural but a polite way to address to someone who's older or higher in rank than you, etc.

[agewa.livejournal.com]

In the first variant the word order accentuates the knowledge - 'Yes, I do know my city well', while the second is simply an answer to the question.

[alexeymarkov.livejournal.com]

By the way, the question itself sounds a (little) bit awkward. We would rather say "Ты хорошо знаешь свой город?". Almost always.

[oryx_and_crake]

You have problems with possessive pronouns.
Ты хорошо знаешь твой город? is wrong. It should be Ты хорошо знаешь свой город?
The same goes for the answer: Я хорошо знаю мой город is wrong, it should be Я хорошо знаю свой город.

[xxblackxsatinxx.livejournal.com]

Eeep! I don't! :( The writers of the workbook do!

I just copied what my workbook has. ->>See here<<- (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/cjb05/img021.jpg)

It wouldn't be the first time the workbook has been wrong. My teacher usually catches these and tells us to fix them... but we haven't learned свой yet.. so, I just assumed that твой (yours) would be мой (my) when answering.

What does свой literally translate to? I'm up to learning something new!

Thanks for pointing that out.

[pinky-the-cow.livejournal.com]

I would be less strict on this one. Quite less strict.

"Ты хорошо знаешь твой город?", "Я хорошо знаю мой город" are quite not the best choice if you pronounce it with level intonation and you're simply relaying information.
Still, there are quite some words between the "resonating words". So if you weave in a playful emphasis on "твой/мой город", making it noticeable that you actually echoing previous "ты/я", then I'd say it is creating a more lively and beautiful speech. The farther apart the words are, the less easy for people it is to catch, what pronoun "свой" is linked with.
"Ты твой город знаешь хорошо?" is much worse, those two words are closer together.

With the shifts of emphasis, the sense of the expressions gets shifted accordingly. You know it's your city, hence the question is actually challenging you somewhat. And you retort with firm assertion that you do know, it's your city. It's pretty usable, unless you want to and try to emphasise another part of the question.
A more level question of "Ты хорошо знаешь свой город?" is much less intense in involving your relationship towards the town. A basic unemotional (by default, that is) inquiry.

Of course (*rolls eyes*) you aren't supposed to know such moves, hence you get scolded for being wrong. Academics, heh.

Also, if it doesn't seem natural, there's quite a large number of cases, when the required sense simply can't be conveyed with "свой".
You can not say "Я и Вася поехали в свою деревню", if you meant to say that you and Vasya went to your village, Vasya hailing from his own village different from yours. It can be none other than "Я и Вася поехали в мою деревню". Or you've got to "demote" Vasya somewhat, like make it "Я с Васей поехал в свою деревню".

"Я и Вася поехали в свою деревню" is okay when it's a village of both of you.

[pinky-the-cow.livejournal.com]

I'll add a bit: instead of just emphasising "мой/твой город", also add a slight pause before it, that's what I described as "playful" >_<. Well, it's true :). When you talk, you're always playing with the ears of the listener.

[oryx_and_crake]

I don't know about playful, but "я знаю мой город" is just plain wrong.

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

I think you're overly sensitive to the issue. I don't see such a big problem in the use of мой/твой in place of свой unless the meaning isn't clear or it sounds too tautological (*т*ы знаешь *т*вой город -- here I'd avoid твой and use свой). It may not be entirely correct (in someone's experience or according to some language reference), but we are just fine with things like позвОнит and позвонИт -- I don't know which one is right since I've heard both so many times since childhood, I just don't care.

[oryx_and_crake]

This is very strange as I never heard anything like "я почесал мой нос" or "он поехал к его маме".

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

Я люблю мой истфак: http://www.unn.ru/rus/f3/hist1.htm
Я люблю мой город: http://mout.ru/news/show/12278
Я люблю моего учителя: http://archive.diary.ru/~loveteacher/?
За что я люблю моего мужа: http://forum.armkb.com/general/2990-za-chto-ya-lyublyu-moego-muzha-s.html

I'm telling you, it's not all that bad or nonexistent -- people indeed speak like this. :)

[taurvat.livejournal.com]

Yeah, they surely do, as there are many people who speak wrong :)
When such phrases are heard from russian-speaking, people will just feel a little discomfort, when heard from a foreigner, it will be like "Oh, a foreigner, of course" :)

[oryx_and_crake]

Exactly. Quod licet Jovi non licet bovi. A native speaker would get off with such irregularities, and a foreigner will immediately look like he does not know how to speak proper Russian.

[joliecanard.livejournal.com]

The two examples you just gave are different, though, in that you've chosen personal things and city is not personal. With nose and mother, other Slavic languages (and it's attested in the history of Russian as well) have used dative for this sort of possession, so there is definitely a difference.
Sorry, can't be more eloquent now, I'm quite tired!

[joliecanard.livejournal.com]

And also, there is a difference between the 3rd person usage and 1st and 2nd person, because there could be two "him"s but not two "me"s in a sentence (barring extreme psychological circumstances, of course... :) )

[oryx_and_crake]

I am not sure what you mean by using dative for possession. "Я почесал моему носу"? Frankly, I don't see any difference between Я почесал мой нос and Я знаю мой город.

[zhp.livejournal.com]

No offence meant, but you seem to have lived in nono-Russian environment long enough to start forming sentences influenced by English. No one would ever say in Russian (unlike in English) Я почесал мой (или свой)нос, Я положил руку в мой (свой)карман, Он повернул свою голову. In Russian sentences like that would have no possessive pronouns at all: Я почесал нос, я положил руку в карман, он повернул голову.

[oryx_and_crake]

I used the sentence structure offered by the OP. Believe me, I know perfectly well that proper Russian sentences do not look that way.

[joliecanard.livejournal.com]

No, I mean things like (and I am making this sentence up for illustration, I know it doesn't occur in Modern Russian) Я видела маму тебе в магазине. Instead of Я видела твою маму в магазине.
However, writing this sentence, it just occurred to me that word order is quite important in the choice of свой.
Твоя мама тебя ищет.
Своя мама тебя ищет.

[oryx_and_crake]

Я видела маму тебе в магазине.
---
Oh, I finally got it. Do you mean the constructions like "Я отец тебе!"? I think that's a totally different kettle of fish.

As to the word order, you are right.

[cheaffa.livejournal.com]

ПозвонИт is correct, позвОнит used by people without high education.

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

You tell me. :)

[windy-corner.livejournal.com]

"Я и Вася" is something a Russian native speaker isn't likely to say. It'd be "Мы с Васей" for a joint action and "Я с Васей" for a reciprocal activity, like "Я с Васей дружу (общаюсь, переписываюсь)".

[cubaki.livejournal.com]

"Я и Вася поехали в свою деревню" is okay when it's a village of both of you. - As for this line - I don't think that you can ever hear it. I'd never say that.

[oryx_and_crake]

Свой translates to your, mine, his, her, their etc. according to the context. You just cannot say "я знаю мой город", "он поехал к его матери" in Russian. (Actually, in the second case, you can say that but your readers will infer that he went to somebody else's mother. If he went to his own, it should be своей матери.)

[xxblackxsatinxx.livejournal.com]

Thanks! :D

[karakal.livejournal.com]

+1 to goblin_warchief.
Correspondigly, both versions of the answer would be formally correct if you replace мой with свой.

[apollotiger.livejournal.com]

The way that I understood this when I learned it was that the adverb хорошо is modifying the verb знать, and so it goes before. Hope that helps.

[taurvat.livejournal.com]

Russian has no strict rules regarding the word order, so even if you say:

"Да знаю я хорошо свой город", this will still be a right answer, although with a different emotional emphasis :)

[windy-corner.livejournal.com]

A regular word order in Russian is direct, just like in English i.e. subject-predicate-object, and the normal position of attribute is before the noun it refers to, as well as the adverbial modifier sounds more natural before the verb (which is vice versa in English): "Он хорошо играет на фортепьяно" - He plays the piano very well. It's true that one may change the word order but usually there is some emotional reason for doing that. "Я знаю свой город ХОРОШО" is correct in, e.g., an argument: I don't know about you but AS FOR ME, I DO KNOW MY CITY WELL. Intonation woulf emphasise both "Я" and "хорошо".