[identity profile] xxblackxsatinxx.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] learn_russian
привет!

I have a few questions, I'm a long time lurker (okay... two or three months now)

My teacher asked us to present a layout of our houses because we're learning rooms and such. I know, easy peasy stuff right?

I just want to make sure I've got my floors labelled properly..

So, first floor would be... первый этаж.

Second floor would be... второй этаж.

Annnd basement would be... подвал.

Right? No? I'm not too sure, I'm relying on my dictionary..

And another question, if I wanted to say..

"If I had a door, this is where it would be."

I know, it sounds weird... but we're also supposed to indicate where the doors are but I don't have a door for my room, we took it off.

Anyways,

спасибo большоe!

Date: 2008-11-04 03:59 am (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
You got the floors right.

Если бы в моей комнате была дверь, она была бы здесь.

And please note it is "спасибО большоЕ", and this is the only correct version.

Date: 2008-11-04 03:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malim-praedari.livejournal.com
First, second floors and basement are translated correctly (although "подвал" is closer to "cellar" in meaning; Russian houses usually don't have basements).

"If I had a door, this is where it would be." = Если бы у меня была дверь, она была бы здесь.

Date: 2008-11-04 04:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] surasure.livejournal.com
all sounds fine, only you gotta be aware, that in russia we normally say подвал when it's located undergound or half undrground, normally is serves as a simple storage room, cause it's a rare thing here to meet a specially designed service room (for laundry etc).

we normally treat your ground floor as a first floor (первый), your first floor - as a second (второй) etc - exactly because ground floor is something unimportant and unnecessar. halls and lobbies in russian language will be placed on the first floor. podval will be only mentioned if there is something special to mention there (underground)

Date: 2008-11-04 04:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] surasure.livejournal.com
ps
if i had a door sounds as ridiculous as it does in english. why should i have a door, am I a door-owner? ))

to make it better simply say "if there were a door in my place, it would be here"
= если бы в моей комнате была дверь, то она была бы здесь.

Date: 2008-11-04 05:15 am (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
I think you are confusing basement with the ground floor. They are different things. The basement IS underground, or most of it usually is, at best you get a small window under the ceiling which is on the ground level on the outside. And the ground floor IS the first floor (at least here, in North America - Britain might be a different story). So, I am afraid there is no other word for basement in Russian except for подвал. I agree that подвал does not exactly fit the bill, it has entirely different connotations, that's why the Russian people who live in North America usually say бейсмент. It sounds awful but at least you don't get the idea of a damp hole underground where sacks of potatoes are stored.

Date: 2008-11-04 05:16 am (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
I think you should say Я живу в полуподвальном этаже. "Я живу в подвале", even though formally correct, really brings to mind some damp and horrid dungeons.

Date: 2008-11-04 05:19 am (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
In Russian, too, grammatically, but doesn't it give you an idea of your person or your body having a door? At least, if you say "if I had ears", you would be speaking about ears growing on your head, not lying in a small box in a drawer somewhere.

Date: 2008-11-04 06:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] isca-lox.livejournal.com
That's not true because there is a word for it in Russian - цокольный этаж.

Date: 2008-11-04 06:58 am (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
Basement is not цокольный этаж.

Date: 2008-11-04 07:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] isca-lox.livejournal.com
The basement IS underground, or most of it usually is, at best you get a small window under the ceiling which is on the ground level on the outside.
This is a description of цокольный этаж. It's basically a basement with windows like that.

Date: 2008-11-04 07:24 am (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
Somehow in my mind цокольный этаж does not go together with a one-family house.

Date: 2008-11-04 07:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] isca-lox.livejournal.com
http://yandex.ru/yandsearch?text=%D1%86%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9+%D1%8D%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B6&stpar2=%2Fh1%2Ftm865%2Fs1&stpar4=%2Fs1&stpar1=%2Fu0

Well, there is always Yandex...

Date: 2008-11-04 07:32 am (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
hm, interesting...

Date: 2008-11-04 07:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] isca-lox.livejournal.com
I used to work for a translation agency that translated quite a lot of documents for construction companies and as far as I remember цокольный этаж can be used for any kind of building.
It's just that we do not have a lot of private houses with basements like that in Russia. But as I understand they are becoming more popular and I've seen dscriptions of one-family houses with цокольный этаж on many web-sites.

I would never call it бейсмент is Russian because that just sound ugly to me. Подвал is only used for storing things and not for living. If the basement has rooms it's цокольный этаж or maybe полуподвальный этаж.

Date: 2008-11-04 11:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] surasure.livejournal.com
well, most likely a russian call it the first floor.. but if it's dark and feels like a dangeon (poor you) =) then it's definitely a podval.
ok here's a better solution:

if you enter you house on the ground level - we'd call it the first floor
if you gotta get downstairs to get to your room from the entry - then we'd call it a podval or a lower level (нижний этаж which is vague and does not indicate the underground position). podval itself sounds a bit dungeonish and a bit as if you're punished so you live in a podval (or under the stairs like harry potter), or your family is too poor or you're hiding. I mean, a russian would think that only due to the specific of russian dwellings.

another good and neutral word for you would be цокольный этаж which means the same basement floor but doesn't sound anything execpt the lower location

Date: 2008-11-04 11:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] surasure.livejournal.com
i disagree. to me it sounds funny and i can imagine it being a perfect start for a bunch of jokes in a sit-com style.
i can have a kitchen but why would i have a door (if i dont have a kitchen). as if the door is my actual property or my precious ))

in russian you'd more likely meet "если бы в комнате была дверь, то" or "если бы у меня в комнате была дверь, то"
that makes all the difference at least to me

Date: 2008-11-04 12:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] surasure.livejournal.com
i think i'm not, only trying to avoid confusing others ) in sum we all have reached the correct answer and i'm sure the author has a clear idea now. english groundfloor and english basement have their own specific, so in russian she gotta use цокольный этаж for dwelling rooms and подвал - for underground storage rooms when the rooms are half in the ground or underground, and first floor in russian mind is the level on the ground, where the entry is. we simply count floors from right-above-the ground.

Date: 2008-11-04 04:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joliecanard.livejournal.com
doesn't it give you an idea of your person or your body having a door?

In English, no, not at all. It's perfectly clear that "If I had a door..." especially since it's in a paragraph describing one's home, means if the door was in the room, not that you're carrying one around or there's a door on your belly.
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