Study Abroad question

[superslayer18.livejournal.com]

Привет всем!

I have a few questions about studying abroad in Russia this coming spring semester (January - May).  If anyone has actually been on any of these programs or knows anything about them, I would really appreciate first-hand feedback!

To give an idea of my Russian level, I've taken 3 years officially at the university level (including doing all of 2nd year over the summer of 2007 in St. Petersburg).

The programs I'm strongly looking into are the Middlebury program in Moscow (through MGGU or something like that... Russian State University of Humanities I think), the ACTR program in Moscow, or the Bard-Smolny program in St. Petersburg.  

I absolutely fell in love with St. Petersburg while I was there, but I got to see so much of it that I'd feel weird spending 4 months there and not in Moscow, which I've never been to and would probably end up living in if I got a job in Russia (as a Political Science/IR guy, it makes sense).  Piter works better for graduation, but Moscow is Moscow.

Anyone have anything to say about this?  I'd really like to hear what you all have to say, even if it's very anecdotal or personal opinions... those tend to speak volumes! 

Also if anyone has any points they'd like to mention to an American thinking about spending Jan-May in Russia (although I've already spent June-August there once), it'd be much appreciated!

ETA: I should have mentioned this earlier, but assume that the 3 programs I mentioned were my only options.  Because of things like graduating on time and receiving financial aid, I can only do programs that are approved by my school for credit, of which there are 5 (the three that i mentioned, CIEE St. Pete which I've heard is horrible, and one in Moscow for actors).  Thanks for all the other suggestions though!

Comments

[slovami.livejournal.com]

My first thoughts:
1) Think about how likely you are to get a job in Moscow; to what extent and in what aspects you expect having study-abroad experience there would help you if you found yourself living there down the line. I'm inclined to say it wouldn't help all that much. The city is huge and rapidly changing; if you happened to end up in the same neighborhood now and in five years, great, but otherwise, the depth with which you can know a city in five months, especially on an American study abroad program, is not all that great. So I don't think it's a good way to make a study abroad choice.

2) If you go to Petersburg, you'll almost certainly get to see Moscow anyway. And while I'm sure you did see a lot on that summer program, I assure you there's much, much more to Piter you can still uncover. I think you'll be surprised.

This is biased, because I prefer Petersburg to Moscow. That said, both are fascinating cities to live in. If you hear trash-talk about Moscow, which I'm sure you will, I'd take it with a grain of salt. There really is a lot of commercialism and crap going on there, but underneath, it's still a beautiful, emotional city (can a city be emotional? it's rather late here) and Europe's largest (or so they say).

As for the programs, I've heard excellent things about all of them, and some not-good things, too. I can ask some of the other people in my grad program if you'd like, because practically all of them did one of those at some point in undergrad.

As for advice for an American spending Jan-May there:
-Be prepared to buy fur-lined boots when you get there. Fur-lined boots will save your feet.
-Travel as much as you can. If you ever find yourself asking, "Hm, is it worth it for me to go to ----?" the answer is YES. The more you see of Russia, the better it gets.

[slovami.livejournal.com]

Hm, that first sentence was not really grammatical. Russians, don't try to learn English from me. :)))

PS - Have you considered programs outside the capitals? It's a bigger challenge, definitely, but I am 100% for it. I know off the top of my head that there were/are things in Yaroslavl, Irkutsk, Omsk or Tomsk (I forget which) and Krasnodar.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_christine/]

I second this idea - looking outside of Moscow/Piter. I spent a brief time (2 months) in Astrakhan, and my group of Americans were likely the only ones in the city at the time. We had many opportunities to talk to strangers because we were a novelty and the people there were very friendly and interested in foreigners.

Good luck!

[superslayer18.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this :) If I may...

to 1) - It isn't so much about making sure I work there as it is about seeing if I want to, you know? I spent the past summer in Beijing for that exact reason, and the whole time I was there kept thinking about how I'd rather be in Russia... now I want to make sure of that via Moscow.

2) I agree that there was a lot of I haven't seen in Piter, but let's assume I've seen 40%... that's still 40% more than Moscow. Part of why I loved Piter so much was not because I was learning in the city, but because I was learning the city. I want to do that again with another city, and Moscow seems like the logical choice.

Later comments - I'm a big-city kinda guy, and while I know those other places exist, they're just not as appealing to me as they could be, you know? I get EXCITED when I think about Moscow, the others... not so much :)

That said, thanks so much for your input. It does help me think about things a lot more, in terms of why I want to do this, etc. Whether or not I follow your advice, I still really appreciate it being given!

[slovami.livejournal.com]

Re: 2) I think we're talking about "knowing" a city in two different ways, in terms of having seen most of it vs. in terms of understanding what makes it tick, what's going on below the surface, how history and geography influence the way its citizens imagine it, etc. That said, I definitely understand the urge to go somewhere new and see new things!

Re: later comments - I secretly wish everyone loved small, provincial cities as much as I do, because I think they're thrilling to live in even if there's only one nightclub and no good theater and you can't get a pizza without mayonnaise on it and everyone always asks you why you're 23 and not married yet. But I understand that this kind of masochism is really just a quirk of mine. ;) Still, if you apply to Middlebury and don't get put in Moscow, это не беда!

One last thing I thought of after reading other comments: the absolute best thing about Russia is making friends with Russians. It can really make or break a study abroad experience. I'd check out which programs let you do that the most, because some offer very little contact with real Russians. And I'd be ready to do it on your own if you find your program isn't delivering. (I'm sure this community can help as well; there are tons of Muscovites in it, anyway! I've met some Russian lj people in real life, and as a rule, they're quite cool.)

So, right, I don't know if I'm really being helpful or just overbearing, but best of luck with your choice! Keep us posted on what you end up doing!

[myrtilus.livejournal.com]

I don't know which study-abroad program for American students is best in Russia, though I suggest you look up what Moscow State University (МГУ, www.msu.ru) has to offer. It is probably the best university overall in Moscow (even though my opinion may be slightly biased) and, in many fields, in all of Russia. I know it offers many programs for foreign students - maybe one will correspond to what you want to do.
If you plan to pursue a career in Russia, be very careful about which program you choose. A certificate from MSU may permit you to apply for jobs that a diploma from another institution doesn't qualify you for.
And, if you opt for Saint Petersburg, check out what SPBGU (СПбГУ) has to offer.

[superslayer18.livejournal.com]

The program I did in Piter before was through SPBGU, which I really liked. MGU is ideal of course, but my university will not give me credit for classes there, which is really the key. Thanks for the suggestion though!

[akvlv.livejournal.com]

A little correction for the future - You shouldn't put the coma in "Привет всем"
`cause that means "Hi to everybody", not "Hi, everybody" (Привет, все)

[superslayer18.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the correction! I've just changed it, and will remember to keep that in mind.

[typesbad.livejournal.com]

I've been on ACTR Moscow twice, I just did their Jan-May program. It is laid back, the resident director is ok but not totally helpful if you have a problem (i.e. you have to bug him a LOT to get him to help you), but you know, he'll go have drinks with you. the excursions you pay for, I feel, were pretty much a ripoff - previous students said they'd gone to very cool places but our excursions were free things we could've done anyway. we went on a week-long trip to Sochi, that was pretty nice but I doubt if there is tension they will go down there again.

uhm, actually, if you have any questions about that program you could just contact me by replying or sending mail to kosmonautje@gmail.com . I know someone who went on ACTR Moscow and she is now on Bard-Smolny in St Pete.

if you loved Piter, you might want to go there. Moscow is hectic, but if you're looking for a job you have a better chance in Moscow (I think) and connections are GOOD, despite how fast Moscow changes - keeping connections through people is the most important thing and most likely they'll still be somewhere, you just have to make sure you check in with them when you leave. Moscow is definitely my favourite - always something to do, very interesting mix of people, real character, whereas I feel Piter is just kind of 'eh' to me... boring, etc (and I'm not exactly a party person). but it's more peaceful and more laid back. I think I'd rather live there long term and visit Moscow in spurts. However, jobwise I know nothing about Piter.

I think I've heard good things about the Middlebury program - I don't know if I'd recommend ACTR. It was really good the first time because the professors are pretty amusing and laid back, but the second time around I got put in the same level though I had improved my Russian and it had become really tedious. I also lived with a host babushka but you get to choose between that and the dorm - the dorm is probably better unless you want to chance commuting and eating crap food - but living with a host is better linguisitcally, esp if you are roomed with another foreigner at the dorm.

[superslayer18.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this! As it stands now, I think I'll consider Middlebury to be my first choice, but I'll still keep ACTR towards the top anyways. OUt of curiosity, which one of the ACTR programs were you with? My university only accredits the Russian Language and Area Studies program, but I know how different is from the others (Business Russian, etc).

Thanks again!

[typesbad.livejournal.com]

I was in the RLASP, rarely people are in the business program - it's basically an individualized RLASP with more article-reading.

Also, if you have a drive to make connections & network in Moscow, you will manage it in 4 months. I have known people from my program to set up future jobs for themselves in 2 months, others who just ended up staying & working in firms, etc. Depends on how motivated you are. I wasn't, so I just volunteered at a civil rights museum that is rapidly losing all its funding.

It is sometimes hard to meet Russians on these things, though, especially until the weather gets nicer. We had a russian-american club thing and if you persisted with the students then you could meet some fun people, but there is always a portion of the group that shells up and only associates with the Americans. If your Russian isn't to where you want it to be maybe you should do Middlebury, because everyone I meet from a Middlebury program has great vocab, grammar, conversational ability etc.... ACTR - outside of class it's easy to fall back into English unless you're hanging out with Russians (who want to speak Russian with you...).

[olga-mukhortova.livejournal.com]

RSUH (http://rggu.com/section.html?id=4308) has its pleasures you never found in MGU.
1) dormitory fro foreign students is located in 10 minutes by foot from Tverskaya street and about 20 minutes from Kremlin. it means you can walk around the city any time you like. MGU is located about 6 metro stations from the center. the center is very beautiful.
2)teachers of Russian as a foreign language in RSUH are highly qualified and very interesting people
3)student groups are never more then 12 students.

from Moscow you can travel everywhere by low cost airlines - SPeterburg, Perm, Eketeringurg, Samara, Arkhangelsk etc. there are a lot of old russian towns arout Moscow, so called Golden Ring.
There you can see the XIV century Russian culture. SPeterburg is very young))

[superslayer18.livejournal.com]

Thank you! This is pushing me more and more for the Middlebury program there. Thanks again!

[vanessa-ru.livejournal.com]

I did Bard/Smolny, and know people who have done the others.

The main difference between smolny and the others is the opportunity to take mainstream classes. Smolny itself is very small, so you are able to be integrated into the university life. if you want to study political science, you can study it there in a seminar class with russian students. Plus, smolny professors generally teach at other universities as well, like other faculties of spbgu or european university and are generally well-known and well-regarded in their fields. Plus the program managers do a lot more for their students even after they've finished smolny. My program manager found an apartment for me when i decided to move back to russia, for instance. You would also take a trip to Moscow.

Middlebury and ACTR put more emphasis on RSL. I don't know much about actr's academics, but Middlebury is definitely verrrry language focused. Smolny is best for people who are very strong in Russian so they can take advantage to the fullest of all the academic and social opportunities that make smolny distinct. You'll get better Russian from Middlebury, but I personally would have been very very bored. Also, I met two kids who had done middlebury in moscow and they were there for a year and knew no Russians, which i thought was bizarre but i don't know if it's middlebury or those two kids in particular.

Bear in mind that middlebury chooses where you get sent to. You rank them when you apply, but you may not get your first choice.

As far as Moscow vs. SPb, i don't think that the fact that you may work in moscow later is really that crucial. You won't really have that much time in 4 months to do enough networking to make a difference for a future job hunt, anyway.

[ctcrkng.livejournal.com]

"the program in Moscow for actors" - is that MKhAT school program? It's supposed to be pretty good (if you're into acting, of course). Decent living conditions, loads and loads of language practice... very different from your average American theater school, though, from what I've heard.

As to ACTR, I do believe it is a very good introduction program, giving you lots of cultural experience, an opportunity to study the ins and outs of dealing with hangover, and some Russian language skills to boot. OK, seriously - the teachers are great; the problem is that the students are usually not really into studying (which is probably true for all students anywhere, but in ACTR the power is in numbers).
That said I've only heard good things about ACTR's postgrad research programs.

People who went to Middlebury said the program was good and thorough, even if a little boring and.. promoting an elitist holier-than-thou attitude. I've also heard they're not too good in terms of helping students integrate into university life, enroll in other courses, deal with administration, etc.

Just out of curiosity, howe much are these programs these days?