эти проклятые порядковые числительные

[slovami.livejournal.com]

In class today we were reading out loud and came to the phrase:

люди XVII–XVIII веков (people of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries).

How would you read that? Please think about it before you look under the cut! Well, html isn't working so well in this browser, so just think about it before you read the next line.

The professor said it would be correct to say семнадцатых–восемнадцатых веков. But then one student said his old teacher taught him to say семнадцатого–восемнадцатого веков. Who is right?

Thanks!

Comments

[oryx_and_crake]

семнадцатых–восемнадцатых веков is certainly wrong.

[slovami.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I thought it sounded wrong, because after all, there was only one семнадцатый век. But numbers often don't work the way I expect them to.

[oryx_and_crake]

The professor must have confused it with a phrase like тридцатых годов. There is only one восемнадцатый век, indeed.

[miram.livejournal.com]

There are two (B.C. and A.C.), though it would be a challenge to invent a reasonable context for mentioning both in one sentence.

[dvanoltri.livejournal.com]

A.D.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

The student was right. Семнадцатого–восемнадцатого веков is the only correct way to say it.

[drivebyluna.livejournal.com]

do you pronounce тире or no?

[malim-praedari.livejournal.com]

No, you don't.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

No punctuation marks are pronounced (in any language; do you pronounce dots and commas in English?). Тире is a punctuation mark, just in case ;-)

[shimshoni.livejournal.com]

семнадцатого–восемнадцатого веков
because there is only ONE 17th century and only ONE 18th century.
does that teacher knows another one (o may be even two) 17th century/ies?:)

[sofa-m.livejournal.com]

I think the correct way is 'люди семнадцатого-восемнадцатого века', I know that's not what your text says, but perhaps the text is wrong :)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Nope. The way you suggest it, it's EITHER 17th OR 18th century people. If you mean BOTH centuries, there's no other way to say it except "семнадцатого-восемнадцатого веков" (as we are speaking about TWO centuries here, not ONE, therefore the plural form.)

[trepang.livejournal.com]

семнадцатого-восемнадцатого веков.

[kehrmann.livejournal.com]

"Семнадцатого-восемнадцатого веков" is correct form.

[lingosteve.livejournal.com]

If you spend most of your time listening and reading, rather than discussing the reasons why this or that is correct, you will know the answer naturally, at first some of the time, then more of the time, and eventually most of the time, but never all of the time. But you will use the language more easily than if you seek (in vain) to understand, remember and use the rules. IMHO.

[slovami.livejournal.com]

After two years spent "listening" basically all the time, I agree that it's the best way to get a feel for the language, although with the caveat that it works a lot better for some people than for others.

But I didn't have a feel for this construction, and my teacher obviously didn't either, and I don't see any harm in wanting to know what the correct form is. In fact, I'm a little baffled that from this one post you seem to think I'm obsessed with "the rules."

But I'll assume you didn't mean to insult, and will get on with my day.

[lingosteve.livejournal.com]

I made no assumptions. I only intended to make a general observation.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Steve, we already see your point. It is needless to repeat it again and again, n any new discussion. We are more than happy that this method you accept for yourself works for you. I don't think it's useful to doubt all other methods, in all other cases than yours, all the time :)

[lingosteve.livejournal.com]

Cyril,

Who is we? Are you we?

I feel that it is useful to point out that the detailed discussion of the structure of a language and grammar points, what is right and what is wrong, and why, is not particularly helpful to language learning. I have learned 10 languages. Things will fall into place when they do, so it is usually best to continue enjoying the language and not to worry about things that are unclear. They will become clear in time, and on their own schedule, a schedule which we are not really able to control.

Your point, I take it, is that this message is not welcome at your community.

[miconazole.livejournal.com]

I agree with your message in principle, and I don't think you've posted it enough to warrant being accused of sounding like a broken record. I also learn mostly by faffing about rather than formally studying. However, I've found that learning a rule or two will often make a lot of what you've picked up suddenly fall into place. More importantly, people post here to ask specific questions, and if you respond to every question with "read and listen more", then what's the point of having this community at all? ;)

[lingosteve.livejournal.com]

I agree that it is helpful to read the odd rule from time to time and it helps you to start noticing things that you might not otherwise notice. A short grammar reference book is something worth consulting from time time.

I think there is lots to talk about when it comes to learning Russian, one's experience, good sources of content etc.. I also expected that my comments might solicit some reaction, some different points of view, some different people's experiences or whatever.

Anyway, although I am a keen learner of Russian, maybe this community is not the place for me. I will see.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

My point is, it is not very polite to keep up the anti-dentism propaganda in a apprentice dentist community, even if you happened to enjoy having naturally healthy teeth :)

You revealed your point once, twice -- we heard. There is no need to raise the same question again and again. People are different, and not everybody work the same way. If somebody wants to clear up the things that are unclear, they have right to get it cleared up, even if this learning technique does not work with somebody else.

[lingosteve.livejournal.com]

To follow your analogy, I did not realize this was a dentist's form, I thought it was about healthy teeth.

I must say I am quite surprised at how quickly you take it upon yourself to tell people what "we" heard and what there is no need for, and what should be discussed at this forum.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Somebody must take responsibilities, even if they are not going to be popular.
As a community maintainer, it is certainly my responsibility to decide whether or not posts and comments within the community are on or off topic.

[old-radist.livejournal.com]

>> Things will fall into place when they do, so it is usually best to continue enjoying the language and not to worry about things that are unclear.

You are definitelly right! As I have learned German, I've used such "free" method and it was really very good.

But.

There are a lot of people, which do (and can) not study "on their own schedule". They need rules to be better in the class, not in the language itself.

[oryx_and_crake]

Ahem.

[slovami.livejournal.com]

A common problem. ;)

I agree, I'd definitely avoid using this construction if I were writing something. Glad to know that's not just because I'm not a native speaker. ;)

[el-cardenal.livejournal.com]

семнадцатого-восемнадцатого веков is right. +100