Question -- Cyrillic letters, English layout for keyboard

[icklehelsy.livejournal.com]

Hi,
I have a question about typing cyrillic letters on my keyboard. I have an IBM Thinkpad with Windows XP. It has the possibility of using many different alphabets & I know how to turn them on and off, install them etc. via language bar and control panel. My problem is key placement with Russian cyrillic. For example, I can type in Serbian cyrillic and the keys are all in the same plays e.g. when I hit my English "D," the Serbian letter rendered is Д, "I" is И and "N" is Н. Which makes typing in Serbian really easy. I'm assuming that the keyboards made in Serbia have that layout but I could be wrong. However in Cyrillic Russian the order is not the English order but the Russian keyboard order which, as all of you probably know, goes "У К Е З В Ы" where we have E, R, T, P, D, S etc. So it's insanely difficult to type in Cyrillic on this machine. I know that on the Apple laptops there is an option for Cyrillic letters in English layout so that they "correspond" (I don't know how to put it more clearly) but I have looked and looked in all the language menus, alphabets etc. and it seems to me that there is no way to use the Cyrillic alphabet and have the keys where they would correspond to the English department e.g. З Т И А П where Z T I A P are on English keyboard.
I know that stickers you can put on your keyboard exist to make this easier but I kind of want something less permanent because I type more in Serbian cyrillic than in Russian.
Sorry for this complicated problem. In sum, is there any way around this? An alphabet I can download or something?
Thank you.

Comments

[ars-longa.livejournal.com]

Google phonetic Cyrillic keyboard - there is plenty of resources.

[oryx_and_crake]

The thing you are looking for is called "phonetic layout" (П for P, З for Z etc.) I am not sure but I think you can select layout when you set up Russian language on your computer. However I don't recommend that. This particular layout for Russian (йцукенг) was developed, not in order to complicate people's lives but to make them easier. It is about ergonomics. The most used letters are closer to the middle of the keyboard, and the letters that are often used together are placed together. I strongly recommend to learn typing by touch - then you will not depend on the keyboards stickers and will be able to type in Russian from any computer.

[slovami.livejournal.com]

I agree with this. I never learned to type in "real" Russian, just phonetic, so I have big problems when I use computers other than my own. Better to suffer a little now (you can buy stickers online to stick on your keys to help you learn) than a lot later.

Actually, I should do that, too...

[utter-bastard.livejournal.com]

I guess it's not really what you're searching for, but I just pull up the On-Screen Keyboard for a look when I've forgotten where something is.

[khathi.livejournal.com]

Well, Russian typewriter had different layout from the start, and this somehow trickled down to the PCs. You just need to find so called "phonetic layout", where Cyrillic letters on the keyboard corresponds to similarly sounding Latin ones, not Russian Typewriter as usual. There are actually plenty resources to find it, and it was pretty popular in the old days, especially with VT100 terminals and early micros, but PC changed it.

However, phonetic layout might be easier to use for a newbie, but in fact Russian typewriter was designed with ergonomics in mind, with most frequent letter grouped in the home row, so touch typists on Russian keyboard (which is commonly referred as "ЙЦУКЕН", BTW) can achieve speeds similar or even higher that on Dvorak layout (',.PYF one), and much quicker than on traditional QWERTY one.

So it's up to you -- if you concerned with typing speed, then it's better to learn Russian layout, if your main goal is consistency and skill transfer from Serbian Cyrillic -- then just look up phonetic layout and your troubles will be gone.

[slovami.livejournal.com]

System Preferences > International > Input Menu > check the box next to "Russian - Phonetic" (should be listed right after "Russian.")

[cherniavska.livejournal.com]

I installed this add-on on my Firefox and do not have problems using English keyboard typing in Russia. Check it out! All you would have to do - to switch to translit with a right click and continue typing in Russian using the same English layout.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1278

[cherniavska.livejournal.com]

Just to add to what I have said earlier, I personally found it difficult to switch from one keyboard layout to other. So, due to the fact that I have to use a variety of computers, most of which are not equipped for typing in Russian, I do prefer my add-ons or www.translit.ru when I need to type something that should be added to a Word or Publisher document.

O, well, I am an odd Russian woman who didn't take music lessons in a childhood nor a programmer to learn how to type by touch:))

[pigmeich.livejournal.com]

Ordinary standart easy beats any overcomplicated issue in long term.

[pphi.livejournal.com]

This URL contains detailed instructions for installing phonetic keyboard drivers for Russian:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PaulGor/

Good luck!

[ru-entranslator.livejournal.com]

Check it out.

I use the American keyboard layout when I type in Russian, just the way I was taught many years ago. Although, if I could do it all over again, I'd learn the keyboard....would make it a lot easier living here in Russia now. :)

http://www.allvirtualware.com/rusoft/parawin.htm

[david-us.livejournal.com]

If you Firefox as your browser, there is an excellent add-on, called russkey (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/561), that can be used to toggle the phonetic Cyrillic keyboard on and off. This add-on has a lot of other features, as well. You can highlight any word(s) and right-click on them and it will do a translation English->Russian or Russian-English. The translation isn't always that good, but it can come in handy for a quick reference. This add-on places the toggle icon in the lower right-hand corner of your screen for easy access. Also, the author of this add-on frequently improves and updates it. The updates occur automatically whenever you start-up Firefox.

Another solution is to replace the default Microsoft Russian keyboard (non-phonetic) with a phonetic one. Instructions on how to do that are here (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PaulGor/kbd_e.htm#contVista).

I have both installed. Some of the keystrokes are not quite so obvious, however - but you'll learn those in time. For instance: "Я" is created by typing "Q". But, for the most part, they are very obvious.

Give it try! I experienced your same frustration until I installed these. Good luck!

[icklehelsy.livejournal.com]

Thanks everyone for all of your advice! It was really helpful!

Sort of related...

[sbgskl.livejournal.com]

After some deliberation I decided to use the standard Russian keyboard layout. I found this site: http://www.keybr.com/ which a decent russian typing tutor program. Just in case you want to get better with the standard layout...