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This is totally outdated, of course. Господин and госпожа are widely used in formal speech and business correspondence. Гражданин is used mainly in police reports and like this. It's the use of товарищ that would now seem strange.

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gera.livejournal.com

Also, note that in the Soviet era, especially the earlier decades "гражданин" was used in reference to those who were deemed to be less than comrades.
For example, this is how a suspect would be addressed by the police.

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dark-spectrum.livejournal.com

Oldness in Russia starts from ~ 40 ^^

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you can use very neutral мужчина or женщина, it's very aloof and can't be used for people you already know.

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dark-spectrum.livejournal.com

i guess so, many are preffering to think that they are looking younger :)

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oh, he would be happy to hear it, trust me )

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scolar.livejournal.com

It's definitely a problem in modern Russian. In old pre-Soviet Russian there were "сударь" for men and "сударыня"/"барышня" for missis/miss. During Soviet time they were first replaced by the universal "товарищ" and "гражданин"/"гражданка". The latter got a slightly bad connotation since it was used by police/prosecutors to call suspects (see "тамбовский волк тебе товарищ"). As a result "молодой человек"/"девушка" and even more awful "мужчина"/"женщина" were used to call somebody. Believe or not, "мужчина"/"женщина" are still in use, but it sounds more and more rude.

BTW, "товарищ" is still an official way to say to somebody in army/navy. So, if you need to say "Yes, Sir!" to the colonel, it's "Так точно, товарищ полковник".

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That makes me think that in fact we don't have any of those forms for common use now, as господин\госпожа is very formal, гражданин completely belongs to the patrol cops and товарищ sounds like a joke, just as comrade in english does.

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Yep, looks like the only appropriate variant is the neutral Извините.

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Or funny, but still nice Уважаемый\ая.

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There are also сударь/сударыня and барышня. I remember it was very nice to hear барышня. :)

Edited Date: 2008-09-09 11:21 pm (UTC)

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myrtilus.livejournal.com

...except that it's kinda flirty...
*which may not be intended

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I heard it from a lady of my mother's age. :)

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myrtilus.livejournal.com

Then (hee... I love the logic behind Russian) it was probably slightly derogatory (it's what my professors say when they want to admonish me).

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No way. :) She was extremely friendly. I bought some stuff from her and we chatted for a while.

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myrtilus.livejournal.com

Funny. I guess the best advice would be to judge by intonation then. I suppose there is no other "rule".
Because I've been flirted with using барышня, scolded and (rarely, or in the context "романтическая барышня") complemented.

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Well, pretty much anything can be used as irony etc. if a person wants it.

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david-us.livejournal.com

You know, you guys are not helping me much. :)

You all seem to be saying contradictory things.

I guess I'll just stick with Извините.

Have you ever been forced to associate with a person for an extended period of time and you can't recall their name? It's amazing how long you can last and not reveal that you have no idea what their name is.

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Well, sorry. But what can we do if we just don't have any suitable address in modern Russian? :)

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Гражданин/гражданка are rare and more formal/official (used in e.g. media, courts, etc).

Господин/госпожа is still rare and way too formal. We haven't had "masters" for a long time in the USSR. :) I'd avoid using it when referring to Russians but it's probably OK for foreigners (from e.g. developed countries of Europe, America, etc).

Товарищ is not so popular in this meaning anymore and hence is rarely used. Many people don't want too many connections with the USSR.

These days you'd normally use the person's name or some other noun (e.g. profession, or noun + name, e.g. врач Иванова) to address people. When you start talking to somebody you don't know, you use молодой человек, мужчина, девушка, женщина (this one can be considered rude if the person is young (younger than 25...30), but OK for older people). For people older than yourself and elderly people (beyond the retired age) one can use мать, матушка, отец, батя, бабушка, бабуля, дедушка, дедуля. The ones ending in -ушка и -уля and батя are diminutive and are a gentle way to address these people. But as always, you can start with a variation of "Извините, Вы/Вас/Вам ..." If appropriate or you're tired of вы, you can ask their name and just use the name from that point on.

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>Товарищ is not so popular in this meaning anymore and hence is rarely used. Many people don't want too many connections with the USSR.

Товарищ is still in use in the military, though. There is no other ways to officially address, say, a major, than "товарищ майор".

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Can't comment much on that one since I'm not affiliated with the modern military. :)

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I am neither, I just went through the long process of preventing my own son from being drafted, and seen a lot.

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That is nasty stuff, I know. As we say, God's been merciful, though.

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Yeah, thanks Him.
I served in the military (in Soviet military, though) and did not want my kid to go through it.

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I think the Soviet one was OK (comparing my dad's experience and what has been popping up in the media in the past 15+ years).

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>I think the Soviet one was OK

Believe me, it wasn't :)

There's a good book from a guy who served a year later than I, the popular sci fi writer, Oleg Divov (the book is non-fiction): The Vengeance Weapon (Оружие возмездия). He was able to picture a young man's story in the Soviet Army. Strongly recommended - a good book. My experience was quite similar, except that I've been drafted to the Interior Troops, not to the Army (which added quite a bit of nastiness to the overall effect.) Only one good quotation from the book: "Как победить Советскую Армию? Ни в коем случае не нападать внезапно. Надо ей объявить войну за месяц. И она сама затрахает себя подготовкой" (How to take over the Soviet Army? In any case, do not attack suddenly. One should declare war a month in advance, and the Soviet Army would screw itself up preparing.)

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Oh, forgot the link. http://artofwar.ru/d/divov/samohodka.shtml

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A good read. Light, bright and entertaining. Per my dad's words, they had people of about the same age most of whom were drafted at the same time, so it wasn't that brutal. Also that was around 80, not 90 and I think there could be some difference because of that too. But the typical army adventures, stupid stuff and going nuts from doing nothing or the same stuff all over again was all there even then. That's all I know.

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ru-entranslator.livejournal.com

+1

And it's used every day in the military.

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david-us.livejournal.com

Would you use "девочка/мальчик" if, for instance, you were tying to get the attention of an 8-yr-old child? (OK - no pedophile jokes! This is purely academic.) If so, at what approximate age would this become inappropriate?

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