Тремя днями позже...

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

Dear Russian Experts,

I'd be grateful if you could please explain the use of the instrumental case in the following:

"Тремя днями позже..." It looks to me as if one could equally use "Три дня спустя..."

What is the effective difference between the two? Is the first case some indirect reference to a particular literary style or epoch? What effect is the author attempting to achieve by using "Тремя днями позже..." as opposed to "Три дня спустя..."?

How would each variant be translated into English so as to preserve the differences in nuance?

It seems to me that the first case might be something one would read in the Bible, e.g. "On the third day..." as opposed to "Three days later...". If so, when and why do Russians use this apparently exalted/antiquated style? (Irony, tongue-in-cheek, sarcasm, etc.?)

Here's the particular context:

"Тремя днями позже вице-президент США Дик Чейни, выступая на международной конференции..."

Thank you in advance for your efforts.

FB

Comments

[oryx_and_crake]

I'd say "Тремя днями позже..." and "Три дня спустя..." are equivalent. You can also add "Через три дня" here. All three have more or less the same meaning. The first two are slightly "bookish", i.e. you will more often see them in writing than in speech. However, all three could equally well go into the sentence you quoted.

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

+1 However, I don't know how appropriate the first two are for the future tense, e.g. Три дня спустя он выступит (на конференции) or Тремя днями позже он выступит (на конференции), unless it's a narration of something that's already happened using the present and future tenses.

[oryx_and_crake]

Yes, that's a good point. However in the case in question they are still interchangeable.

[oryx_and_crake]

And no, "Тремя днями позже..." is neither exalted nor antiquated nor specifically dated nor Biblical.

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

They are the same, people use "позже" because "спустя" has some obscene connotations.

[oryx_and_crake]

"has some obscene connotations"

In a mind of a pimply sex-obsessed teen, maybe. For everybody else that's a perfectly neutral and usable word.

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

Well, I am 33 and have been married for 10 years, I guess I am still a pimply sex-obsessed teen and hang around pimply sex-obsessed teens in their 30s-40s.

[oryx_and_crake]

I did not mean you (sorry if it sounded that way). However, seeing sex connotations in completely neutral words is not typical for people in post-adolescence period.

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

What I am saying - I've never actually heard anybody saying "спустя" in the context of OP. Could it be that your assessment of the popular view on the word's neutrality is off a little bit?

[oryx_and_crake]

Pray tell me, do the words конец and кончить also have sexual connotations in your mind? And, as a result, do you really think they are obscene and should not be used in official correspondence or talking to business partners?

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

I did not say it's obscene so find somebody else to play straw-man burning with you. I told you everything I had to say on the topic.

[oryx_and_crake]

You did not, did you? So, this post has been written by somebody else, eh?

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

I wrote that post, you've just seen what has not been there again.

[oryx_and_crake]

Does it say "obscene connotations" or does not it? This is the question...

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

Yes it does. It does not say the word is obscene in case you are wondering.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Look, to make long story short -- you have to seriously amend your perceptions of certain Russian vocabulary. The word in question has no obscene connotations, save during the teenage sex obsession when one is even giggling when hearing words like "конец фильма".

[oryx_and_crake]

P.S. I searched "спустя" on Yandex: http://yandex.ru/yandsearch?p=0&text=%D1%81%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8F
and checked the first 5 pages. Not a single one of the hits has anything to do with sex.

Oh, by the way, the fact that you never heard "спустя" in any other connotation than sexual - does that mean that you have never read Alexander Duma's "Двадцать лет спустя" and haven't even heard of this novel? Or do you consider the novel's title obscene?

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

No, Mr. Dumas has not honored me with reading his book aloud in Russian too.

[ex-gavarun.livejournal.com]

Мушкетёры двадцать лет спустя

[ex-gavarun.livejournal.com]

а, я тормоз

[oryx_and_crake]

Please note that the working language of this community is English. Thanks for your support though.

[pashator.livejournal.com]

Words are only words, they mean only what you put in them thus "obscene" is in your head not in the word itself.

* I can give you probably hundreds of different examples of "obscene connotations".

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

I could not agree more! Let's take for example word "хуй" - totally innocent word, if you had thought it's obscene you better check your head, probably you are one of those sex-obsessed teenagers or worse.

[oryx_and_crake]

No, THIS word is obscene (it seems to me that you are pretty confused in this aspect)

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

Really?!
Words are only words, they mean only what you put in them thus "obscene" is in your head not in the word itself.

[oryx_and_crake]

Don't quote other people's words to me, I am not responsible for them.
You know perfectly well that there is a set of words called "obscene". You would not use them, for example, in official correspondence. However, there are other words, perfectly neutral, in which people with inflamed imagination can find obscenities, like a Victorian lady who said that men are obscene even when clothed.

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

Well, you've replied to my answer to another person. The answer made of sarcasm and mocking that person's idiotic statement.

[oryx_and_crake]

Please don't call other people's statements "idiotic", this is a rude and personal remark that will not be tolerated here. If you cannot participate in a civilised discussion, don't.

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

Well I won't, have the sandbox for yourself, I seem to excite you in an unhealthy way.

[pashator.livejournal.com]

You're really confused, I'll try one more time: This word has an obscene meaning in russian language and it is the primary and only meaning of this word, everybody would take this meaning as obscene. Word "fuck" has much less obscene meaning and would not be taken so bad as russian one. Word "спустя" has no obscene meaning, to put it in this word you need play with it, put the word in proper context, word by itself has no such meaning at all.

* I'll give you example from english world:

Iorek Byrnison: [to Lyra] Do you wish to ride me? (Golden Compass)

As you probably know Iorek is a white talking bear and Lyra is 10 years old girl, to half a theater this innocent phrase sounds funny, should we now avoid using word "ride"?

[pashator.livejournal.com]

Exactly, that's why word "fuck" is not so bad, it's all about meaning!

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

The word хер (and хрен) used to be a totally decent word. Until the meaning of this other х-word you mentioned got attached to it because the х-word was generally banned.

"спустя"?

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

So, what is the sexual/obscene connotation of "спустя"? I know "кончить" because someone laughed when I used it and told me I should not use it, due to its alleged sexual connotation. They suggested "закончить" as a suitable alternative.

Re: "спустя"?

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

"Спускать" also means to "ejaculate".

Re: "спустя"?

[oryx_and_crake]

Again, I have to emphasize that both words are absolutely neutral unless they are used in highly informal context. In office-related context for the audience that is over 21 year old both are perfectly safe. I cannot imagine that, for example, "кончить работу над проектом" or "они поставили материалы три дня спустя" would cause giggling.

[pigmeich.livejournal.com]

Bible version is "на третий день" or "третьим днем".

Also "через три дня".

All yours and mine are equally. Just flavours.