The particle же

[slovami.livejournal.com]

I understand how the particle же is usually used, although I wouldn't always necessarily trust myself to use it correctly. It seems to express emphasis; for example, конечно же! is an even stronger way of saying конечно!

Anyway, a while ago I noticed a usage which seems to be different (from Master and Margarita):

Те, кто имел уже несчастье в эти дни попасться на его дороге, даже при этом слабом светом язычка в лампадке, конечно, тотчас же узнали бы его. Это был Коровьёв, он же Фагот.
Those who had had the misfortune of encountering him in those last few days would have, of course, recognized him immediately, even in the weak light of the lamp. It was Korovyov, also known as Bassoon.

The first же, in тотчас же, is emphatic, making the concept of "immediately" even stronger. But am I correct that the second же here conveys the meaning "also known as"? It doesn't seem to serve any kind of emphatic function, so that's my best guess.

Thanks!

Comments

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

"он же" is a set expression: it is used in Russian approximately the same way "a.k.a." is used in American English. There's a few language myths connected with its usage: for example, Varlam Shalamov's "Берды Онже" (http://www.gunesh.org/russian/shalamov_berdy_onze.htm) -- a story of a man who became a prison camp inmate only because of "он же" expression wrongly typed in the list of convicts.

[slovami.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[slovami.livejournal.com]

Thanks! :)

[oryx_and_crake]

It's not "Коровьёв", it's КорОвьев (no ё, and the stress goes onto the second syllable).

[pigmeich.livejournal.com]

Eplanatory reference: http://gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?efr=x&word=%E6%E5 .

[oryx_and_crake]

P.S. I understand that you call him Коровьёв because the translator decided to render his name as Korovyov. I have no idea why he/she/they would do that; they might have been misled with similarity of Коровьев with surnames like Соловьёв and Воробьёв. May I ask who did this translation?

[slovami.livejournal.com]

The translation is by Diana Burgin and Katherine Tiernan O'Connor.

[oryx_and_crake]

Interesting, thanks

[oryx_and_crake]

I have to remind that the working language of this community is English ;-)

As to your point, I agree that the stress should go on the second syllable, but this surname is not derived from корова (that would be Коровин).

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

Же is similar to "too" in English, you can use it for emphasis and to attach additional qualifications, literally translation would be "known as Bassoon too".

[oryx_and_crake]

I cannot see the original link because ot my stupid internet provider; but I think that Коровьев is not from коровьё either (is that a word in Russian?) but a surname constructed by Bulgakov, sounding similar to surnames like Филипьев, Арсеньев...

[oryx_and_crake]

Thanks, I see that (they do not bring forward any arguments though); I cannot see what's in http://www.lgz.ru/archives/html_arch/lg 112006/Polosy/18_2.htm . I thought maybe there were some arguments or quotations from Bulgakov or anything to throw light on the subject.

[oryx_and_crake]

You know, I am usually not awed by authorities. Anyone can start a forum named after themselves, and any crazy idea (e.g. Fomenko) can find follwoers. Let's start with the fact that коровьё is not a word in Russian (or, at least, one I never heard, which says a lot).

[oryx_and_crake]

P.S. Asked in my journal - 7 native speakers out of 7 voted for КорОвьев

[oryx_and_crake]

+ он(а) же = the same person

[oryx_and_crake]

I agree, but the native speakers' instincts count for something, too.

[oryx_and_crake]

The surname's owner has a 100% right to determine where the stress in his surname goes. It's a little bit different with fiction characters.

[slovami.livejournal.com]

I thought it was interesting, by the way, that the notes to the translation (which are copious and generally well-done, as I'm sure you can imagine is necessary for the average English speaker to understand the allusions in the book, i.e. to the realia of early Soviet culture) didn't say anything about the choice of Korovyov instead of Korovyev. If it was a choice influenced by Bulgakov's documents or something, I think that would have been mentioned.

So how did they get Korovyov? I assume at least one of the translators is a native speaker, since that's usually how the powerhouse novel translation teams (like Pevear and Volokhonsky, for example) work. But maybe she immigrated at a young age and doesn't have the same intuitions as others...

[oryx_and_crake]

So we are back to square one :-(

[oryx_and_crake]

The translators of Russian literature into English sometimes make most funny mistakes that could have been avoided if only they had asked a native Russian speaker. (I even wrote in my LJ about that http://oryx-and-crake.livejournal.com/455457.html)

[slovami.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately I don't understand - what's so bad about "Mazel tov?" And the second I don't understand at all, because I also don't know the word that was translated as "laboratory." And how do you make squirrels out of cats?

[oryx_and_crake]

"Mazel Tov" is a Yiddish expression, not Russian, and completely out of place in this context. Not a single one of the novel's characters does have any Yiddish connotations. Besides, it expresses a wish of luck, not health.

As to the second one, польты is illiterate plural form of пальто (coat); this word does not have a plural form (одно пальто, два пальто, три пальто). As you can see, there was no reference to any kind of laboratory in the original phrase - it was born by the translator's rampant imagination. As to cats, it's very easy: you take off the fur, dye it and make a neckpiece for the coat.